blonde poker forum

Mr Neil Channing wrote a rather interesting blog recently.

It can be found on his website, which I'm sure you are all familiar with. Out of respect to our Sponsor, I will not link to it, but I will reproduce the article.

Please remember, play most of your your online poker on DTD. ;)

More.....

The Blog was posted 2 weeks ago, & attracted some negative feedback, which Neil subsequently addressed as follows.....


Hi all,
 
I've been back from Vegas for a few days now and so far I only managed one blog about the WSOP. It doesn't mention anything about how I was doing, how the Brits were going early on or the amazing day when Barny got his much deserved bracelet, but it seems to have got more attention than any blog I've ever written. I'm pleased because it was something that had been building up inside for a while.
 
I just want to pint out a few things that I wasn't really saying, as some people, who probably didn't really read it, seem to have misunderstood.
 
I certainly don't condone the berating of players for the way they play. I am certainly aware that people do berate and I also note that this is often done by miserable, older players. I wish they would not do that, but that is not what I was writing about. Obviously professionals who berate need to stop doing that.
 
I certainly would prefer all professionals to remove the headphones, quit with the iPad and be prepared to chat to other players. I wasn't talking about that though. I am aware though that I have a small internet addiction and I like to use the iPhone while playing. I am not being a hypocrite and I'm not saying all players, even those who are painfully shy, should be forced to chat away at the table.
 
I am certainly aware that some of the grumpiest and rudest players are older players, often recreational and often, by definition, losing. While the game would be more fun if those people were happier, I can understand them not skipping for joy and I wasn't writing about them.
 
I am simply saying that if you are, or if you aspire to be, or think you may be a professional poker player and you are willing and able to speak at the table, then please make sure that you attempt to speak to ALL players and not simply to those who fit into your peer group.
 
That is it, not too hard to understand I hope.
 
Thanks for reading.
 
nc
 

...and the Blog itself went like this.....


Fairly early on in this WSOP I was coming back to the room to get my head down after another late-in-the-day elimination. I got into the elevator at the second floor to find it crammed full of people who had entered via the lobby. The fact that they were poker players was not a complete shock as our place is full of these creatures, but it was surprising given that the day's event had forty minutes to go before bagging-up time.
 
I decided to squeeze in rather than wait for the next one and so found myself two inches away from one guy's nose. The guy to my left was telling the guy to my right how several of the passengers had just been out to celebrate the man close to my nose winning the 'Millionaire Maker' bracelet event for $1.2 million.
 
I had about 22 seconds to say something before my floor and I went with...
 
"Congratulations, that's amazing, you must be really excited, that is some achievement."
 
Nobody reacted in any way to my words. The man with his nose close to mine didn't even flicker or flinch and none of the other passengers said a word. Four or five seconds passed and the man on my left told the man on my right that they once played in the Main Event. I then remembered that I'd played the man on my right a couple of times in cash games and also in a couple of WSOP events. None of these games of chance had worked out for this fella and I suspect he may not be too keen on me. His millionaire friend I have never met.
 
Twenty seconds later I said...
 
"Lovely talking to you guys, have a great night."
 
Further tumbleweeds tumbled and I went to bed.
 
I was pretty shocked. My motives for speaking that night were purely as another human being - who has some experience of what the guy close to my nose was experiencing - wanting to say something nice, as well as an Englishman who doesn't really do quiet moments, wanting to fill a silence. I was happy and excited for the guy. I didn't mean it sarcastically, I didn't want staking, I wasn't trying to borrow money, and there was no way you could interpret it as anything other than a person trying to be friendly.
 
They looked through me like I didn't exist. The way they ignored me showed total disdain but it was also like I was invisible or speaking in Swahili. I was shaken.
 
A few days before my elevator ride I was playing one of the $1,000 events. It was the one with a re-entry option. My first table started at 11 a.m. and it was full of nice people with regular jobs and lives who had decided to give it a go and try and become a world champion by playing a game they enjoy. Several of them may never win any form of poker tournament, but they didn't really care and they were here to have fun.
 
After I bust from my lovely first table by doing something quite risky that may well have worked on another day, I decided to re-enter.
 
The people who get up to play at 4 p.m. include a large number of 'professionals' - and I really use the term loosely - who can just about drag themselves out of bed mid-afternoon. My new table was full of self-proclaimed professionals - although many have probably not had five winning years - who were full of themselves.
 
It was like they were having a competition to see who could be the biggest arsehole.
 
They all spoke very loudly, mostly across each other, and they rarely paused to listen to what the others were saying. They talked about "morons" limping and not three-betting A-J in the cut-off and not knowing to 3/5 with an A-Q on the button. They discussed staking and make-up and games with large buy-ins; they talked about people I know of through poker websites but have never met; they spoke loudly about ranges and fold equity; and they went on and on about themselves and how fucking great they were.
 
There were two kindly looking older guys on the table. They didn't talk at all. They weren't too good at poker and they did some of the things that the other people said only morons would do. It was going to be hard for them to join in the conversation; they probably had no idea who the people I'd heard of from poker websites were, and they almost certainly had no idea what 3/5 or make-up meant, or what would constitute a three-bet shoving range.
 
They probably had good stuff to add to any conversation. They looked like they had lived a bit: they probably had kids and grandkids; they may have started and built up a business; they may be very successful; maybe they had taught to a new generation; perhaps they'd even fought for their country. I never got to find out. They were both at the other end of the table and I couldn't get to talk to them as the oaf next to me just wouldn't stop boasting in a shouty way.
 
Nobody ever spoke to the kindly old gentlemen. They never spoke. They couldn't talk to each other as the two guys in between them wouldn't shut up about some guys only referenced by their online games and how sick they were. After one hand I was reminded that the nice old men were there. A discussion about the hand involved much debate about the strength of one of the older men's 4x open. It was discussed totally as if they weren't even there and they couldn't understand English. Two different people openly laughed at the play of one of the kindly old gentlemen.
 
I busted that tournament. I was angry and disgusted.
 
Obviously the behaviour that day is very bad for the future of poker. After I got out of the lift I realised that the behaviour exists slightly outside of poker and that it may be damaging to the future of society.
 
Is it really the case that people of different generations simply cannot communicate and does it mean that in the future we just should not even try?
 
Have the young really got nothing to learn from their elders?
 
Is this a future I can look forward to as I enter old age?
 
In between worrying about these issues I played a bunch of $1,500 and $1,000 WSOP events. I avoided all the events of $2,500 and over. They seemed to be full of the people I saw at that table and in the lift. They didn't look much fun. The numbers were down in those events and they did well in the smaller events. I enjoyed the tables I played on.
 
I'm pretty sure my words are going to fall on deaf ears and the behaviour I witnessed will continue. A certain clique of players absolutely never engage with any player outside of the clique while at the table. That's fine. They will soon all be playing events just amongst themselves and they'll find their society begins to cannibalise itself. They will get what they deserve.
 
I spent quite a bit of time attempting to do something about the things that were upsetting me. I made a bunch of Tweets and wrote some things. Some people sneered. I don't think people should educate at the table and I definitely think berating others for playing badly is terrible for poker, bad for the profit of all players at the table, and just not a very nice thing for a human being to do to another human being. I also understand that some people are just shy and they want to put on their headphones and play Open-Face Chinese. Obviously I can't see why they wouldn't rather try a little harder to win and focus on the game, but they've paid their money and if they only want to focus forty percent on the game then that is up to them.
 
People who thought I was merely talking about those things got me wrong. I was trying to address a very specific thing I saw that upset me. I would like it if the practice of excluding recreational players from the conversation by talking in a way that they can't join in or by simply refusing to engage with them in any way would stop.
 
I believe the practice is taking the fun out of the game for many people and it is damaging the future of poker. That is it, in a nutshell, simples.
 
I didn't cash too many of my early events but I had fun and I had some shots. None of the Brits really did any good in those early weeks.
 
Plenty of time though. I was pretty sure we could come back strong...

Only come across this once at lower levels (with the exception of the odd comments) some guy constantly telling others their bet was too small, too big, how could you not raise etc. it led to very little chat at the table. Then the player to my left won a pot from him and as he just started to waffle on about the play the quiet player to my left said quite loudly some thing along the lines of " I don't care what you think, I don't want to know what you think, I paid my entry and I will play how I want" then started chatting to some one else.
That should have been the end of it but of course the 'expert' just got worse, bad atmosphere developed and it totally took the enjoyment out of it.  So if its generally a lot worse at higher stakes then its probably no great loss that I've never managed to play one.

Don't you just love to read superb writing. TY  Mr C

If you recall on the WSOP thread there was a podcast interview with Neil where he mentioned the same things.

I applauded him then and replicate those thoughts now.

If you are a poker player it shouldnt stop you from having normal human social skills and being  polite to others either at or away from the table .                                                                                                                                    
Great  Stuff....Keep your thoughts coming sir   ;applause;

Yup.

We don't see enough writing of that calibre in the poker fraternity.

Interestingly, he writes exactly as he speaks, & I think that is the key to good writing.

It also helps to have pride & care in what we write.

It is, as  I'm sure Neil is perfectly aware, a matter of EGO, and the ironic thing about this is the less "justified" the perception of someones EGO is (note I say perception, I think that an ego in itself is an entirely perceptive thing) then the more forcefully it's attempts to justify it to unknown people is.

In a nutshell a lot of these guys Neil was referring to who played on that second table have either had one big result to propel them to this place, orbeen staked into games above their previous results/level of ability, sure they are good players but they haven't really "ground it up", in a sense that an iconic pro and top of their industry face like Moorman or Gboro have done, so they feel that the respect of their peers and those playing at their level is always under question. "Yeah this guy won a WPT for $650k but I saw him make this terrible 4bet with A9." etc I've seen it many times when these online tourney guys sit down at a live table and just jostle for each others respect, the thought of the other going to his mates "played with X today he was a sicko" is now more important than anything else.

A few good examples of these things from my experiences;

1) about 3 yrs ago I'd been on my first high(ish) stakes adventure on the internet and was winning/losing thousands per day, I sat down in a £1/£2 NL game (remember I look very young) and everyone thought I was just some fresh faced wet behind the ears kid (they were not too far wrong lol) I'm pretty sure no-one thought "wow this guy is defo terrible" but i knew no-one thought "wow this guy is a high stakes wizz I am very scared now he's sat down" I was kinda steaming, LIKE HOW DO THESE PEOPLE NOT KNOW I'M A HIGH STAKES SICKO. I ended up playing terribly and dusting it all off cos I was so determined to show everyone how good I was. The level of arrogance you need to genuinely think a few guys enjoying an evening of cards should be awe-struck at your arrival is frightening.

Next day I had a good long hard look at myself and have never ever been like that since, play every game and every person on the merits of that situation... Ego's are very expensive I'd rather spend my money on strippers.

2) I played a tournament in europe, and I was sat very quietly on this table (I was pretty hungover and wasn't being particularly social) there were two guys who I actually did recognise as online tournament players, both very successful, they were talking about winning this much, losing that much money etc was all very crass, I did not get involved until a spot to make a joke cropped up which I couldn't refuse. I created a small moment of silence as they both loooked at me (straining to try figure out if they knew my online screen name) realised they didn't and got on with it, i felt quite exlcuded but didn't really care.

Later on that day a guy who'd I'd been playing in the cash games all week (we'd been playing very big) sat opposite me, we'd been bantering about at the tables all week and continued here. HE punted his stack off attracting all sorts of hungry looks from the "pro's" he then asked me if I'd like to start a game with him as soon as I busted (ty for the confidence :D ) "Ok, 100/100 NO-ONE quits till I get EVEN" I said "Can't promise that I've gotta fly home tomorrow" (jokingly) the two guys turn to me and start in effect berating that guy saying what a life i had to be playing him, how much is he losing this week? Is he as bad as he looks? and so on and the guy is still in fucking ear-shot?! I mean are these guys real??? Just zero social intelligence, do they think that people (irrespective of their backgrounds) who listen to them talk are impressed?!? I assume they must. Thank god you have poker boys.

3) I was playing a cash game in Vegas a cpl of years ago and a tall black guy sat next to me, seemed nice enough, friendly but not a huge presence, funny but not hysterical, sat kinda awkward couldn't ruffle chips that well (lol) I was chatting to him mostly about soccer (I know, fkn yanks!) for the time i was sat next to him. As I played a few hands with him it was clear he was a very good player. As the hours rolled by I started to wonder if he wasn't just INCREDIBLEY GOOD but the best guy I'd ever played, or was just running well. He was humble, un-assuming and after pot I couldn't help but wonder if I'd just been totally owned (even the pots I'd won) Turns out his name is Tony Gregg and he prolly makes $15m a year from poker. Makes you wanna lol at the guys in tournaments losing their heads because a 53yr-old recreational player from Washington doesn't seem to give a fuck that he's won 3 triple crowns.

Like I said on another thread yesterday it isn't about "keeping people playing so we can make more money" or "not educating them so they don;t get better" it's about understand WHY a person has chosen, on a day/evening he could be doing a huge number of different things, to be sat there playing cards with you, if you wanna beat someone at a game it helps to understand why they are playing. Also boasting/showing off/be-littling others ot boost your own ego is the sort of thing ****'s do (insert whichever word you'd like) so if are not a **** then you shouldn't do it, as in any enviroment it's classless and makes you look like a tool.

Any "pro" player who doesn't think that it's his responsibility to have positive affect of the environment of a poker game is deluded, and is sucking the soul out of people who act properly by letting them pay the "rake" on their behalf.

You should write more. Great post Dave

Just gets better.

It seems to be vogue at present for Pro's to be addressing this issue and my feelings are it will slowly filter through and that can only be a good thing.  Can't tell you the amount of times I have wanted to stick a couple of hundred quid on a cash table to have a bit of fun but shy away from it for all the reasons mentioned in the superb writing above.

Great read, Its unreal how so many people act like this just so rude.

"I'm pretty sure my words are going to fall on deaf ears and the behaviour I witnessed will continue. A certain clique of players absolutely never engage with any player outside of the clique while at the table. That's fine. They will soon all be playing events just amongst themselves and they'll find their society begins to cannibalise itself. They will get what they deserve."

Could be very true!

Not sure I agree with all of that, SuuPRlim, but it's a heck of a persuasive piece of writing. Wp, sir.

I'm going to have to be the antidote to all this pros gotta be a pro love fest, because to be quite frank its getting painful to listen to

1. Every pro has had bad days, what if you caught them on a bad day?

2. I have NEVER seen a pro get stacked in a 500+ bb pot to a tiny out shot, ............. laugh, shrug it off and reload, I've seen plenty recs do it  thou

3. I have seen plenty of the UK best "pros" lose it (to varying degrees) at the table

4. I have seen plenty UK pros berate the "fish" on twitter (to varying degrees and with "humour" to mask it)

5.

6.

7.

//

101.

Keep filling in the numbers yourselves


There is no such thing as this "pro" people keep speaking of. There are probably less than 10 in the UK I can even think of, non of whom I've played with and maybe, just maybe, they have had bad days too.

We get it, us recs turn up and lose, whilst the pros laugh and giggle behind our backs, whilst smooching us at the table! Not sure which reality I prefer to be honest

lets put it in a different context Guy.


You're a dentist, I need my teeth seeing to so I make an appointment. I turn up to your surgery, first thing you do is berate me for not brushing my teeth properly, tell im a moron cos my teeth are a bit ropey. We then sit there in silence as you do the surgery, occasionally breaking the silence to have a laugh with the nurse about how shit I am at brushing my teeth. After it's all said I done I owe you £69 and I'm not feeling too good about myself. Won't be rushing back.

It's just all EGO, it's a behavioral instinct as old as time pick someone weaker than you in a certain enviroment and use your superiority over them to make yourself feel better. If you have adequate respect for the person and enough confidence in yourself then you prolly won't do this stuff.

Dave, I totally agree with the principal of what is being said, but its never going to happen.

I agree that pros could improve their own situation, but lets not pretend that this is going to change overnight because it wont. Therefore lets stop talking about this utopia which simple doesn't exist and never will.

no you're right it'll never change because it isn't a poker problem, it's a problem with peoples personalities

 I have a bit of a busy day so I can't get involved in a long discussion right now. I just wanted to say thanks for the kind words and to ask a question...

 Why do people keep misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I am saying?

 Of course it would be great if people never berated.

 Of course it would be great if people were always nice to each other.

 Of course it would be nice if nobody ever educated at the table.

 Of course it would be better if people took off their headphones and turned off their iPads to focus on the game.

 That is not what I was writing about though.

 What I asked to happen in my writing is surely not any great utopia which is impossible to achieve.

 What I wrote about is not kissing-up to the fish.

 All I asked was this...

  "if you are, or if you aspire to be, or think you may be a professional poker player and you are willing and able to speak at the table, then please make sure that you attempt to speak to ALL players and not simply to those who fit into your peer group".

 That was it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 Is it really that hard to understand and impossible to achieve?

Someone having a bad day, posting a dig at fish, or being 1 outed for a massive pot and having a paddy isn't what the posts are talking about though?

Little groups trying to see who can do the best impression of rainman, whilst being generally obnoxious, and trying to make the experience as uncomfortable as possible for everyone bar their little clique is.

It's obviously not going to change overnight, it might not change at all unless poker sites start throwing life skills training about too :)

I don't mind reading a good old rant about it, especially when it's so well written. Also, if people don't keep banging on about it things might get worse, and that would be most annoying.

I don't play much live anymore for various reasons, but the less ignorant trolls I play with when I do, the better the experience is :)

Neil

Im not misinterpreting what you are saying, you have expanded your discussion further in the follow up, I am taking that point further.

And Lil D hits it on the head again, its not a poker problem, its  a life problem.

But there are 2 things being discussed.

Firstly the "young head phoned "pro"". Well he is in a clique. Cliques exist and always have, its a way of life. People feel both comfortable and empowered in their clique. That's why they have them. So maybe these young guys are just in a clique. But there are lots of other cliques at poker tables too, some of which "well known pros" are happily formed in, but sits outside your current point of view about poker. It doesn't make them any less welcoming, no matter how much time they spend talking to recs'. They "clique up" when it suits them too. That's why its empowering (to them)

The 2nd point is just the general berating (call it what you like). It will never go away either. I have (knowingly) wound up several old school pros to the point of them losing it (I don't do it (knowingly) anymore). So are they not good professionals? Or having a bad day? What should I think of them?

Personally I think the pro v rec thing is vastly over played.  Many of the bad manners occur because a supposed "pro" is slowly realising that he isn't going to be able to make a living at the game and is simply an unemployed bloke who plays cards for too many hours a day, and every day that goes past makes him more and more unemployable.

 Firstly I didn't mean to expand my point, I am simply responding to all the people who have reacted by saying...

 I saw that Neil Channing using his iPhone in a tournament, why is he saying we can't use them? I am not and I did not. Ideally it would be better for the game if everyone stopped using iPhones/iPads/headphones etc but I stress again I did not want to get into that debate.

 I played with that Neil Channing once and he didn't speak to anyone. So much for him trying to make us all talk. I totally accept that some people are very shy and people have days or parts of a tournament when they don't feel like talking. I have no problem with that, although I would suggest that the games would be better if people generally talk more.

 I played with that Neil Channing and he was really grumpy. Poker is an annoying and frustrating game and people can be very rude to others from time to time. Sometimes that stuff makes me grumpy. Ideally people would never be grumpy but I can't make that happen by writing a blog.

 I get it that cliques exist and I get it that some "big name pro" poker players are so far up their own arsehole that they don't speak to anyone else, but luckily there are very few of them. I could have written a blog having a go at those who are like that but I chose not to.

 What I have seen hundreds of in the last couple of years is players who will only ever engage with people who are part of their clique and this is something I believe can damage the game.

 Am I really being totally unrealistic to campaign for that to stop?

 Why are some people so angry with me for raising this?

 Several people have called me a hypocrite, the man who inspired me to write the blog must have recognised himself there as he started laying into me on Twitter and defended his right to behave as badly as he wants and questioned whether players behaving better will have any positive effect on the game. Let me say that again...he really believes that unless I can present him with unequivocal evidence that what he is doing is damaging the game then he defends his right to continue behaving like an arse.

 Another man who claims to have played with me called me a c*** for mentioning any of this.

 meanwhile I have had over 200 people contact me to say that this stuff is among the reasons they don't play anymore.

I wrote a reply, then saw this had been posted..



One thing I would say though instead of sitting there, getting angry about the situation and writing something afterwards next time actively try and do something. Talk louder than the clique and include the older guys, they might actually turn out to be as arrogant as the others in which case you end up putting your headphones on, you might end up having a real nice conversation with them just by yourself or maybe the other guys will even get involved themselves in a none 3b/5b conversation or they might get sick of listening to you and all put their own headphones on. Who knows? I don't think this would ever be completely solved but nor do I think it is something that will rectify itself so, we must take a stand. FREEEEEEEEEEEDOM. Sorry for some reason Mel Gibson started pouring through me there.

Ref the guys in the lift. A few yanks have told me everything I say sounds sarcastic, so it could be an English thing. "oh well done, you just won a million dollars. Congratulations you".

As recreational player I recognise what Neil is saying and it is nothing to do with being a pro, you get the same idiots in all games, no matter what level you are playing.

These people simply don't see the damage they do to the game, being unable to see beyond the opinion they hold of themselves,  But discouraging a once a week player from continuing to participate in simple terms removes  52 customers from what should be considered your 'market' a year.

The idiots don't need to entertain, simply be civil,

Neil

Im sure (and I hope) that my points don't in anyway come across as towards you personally like some people look like they have. It certainly isn't my intention.

I think its fine that you raise it as an issue, and great if it changes. But honestly, I don't think it will much, and the problem is you can never account for that "off day" because we are all human, and that off day might just be the day where a pro puts off a rec for life. That's all

"Why are some people so angry with me for raising this?"

Because the people getting angry don't have the social skills.  Getting these people to talk to an older social group about any subject other than poker would be like watching a slow motion car crash.  

Think Frank Lampard's "super goals" advert for the Sun about 5 years ago.

 all of those other things (being friendly, never educating, never berating, not being grumpy) can go wrong on an "off-day" and it is impossible for the whole world to be nice all the time.

 Should it really be so hard that?...


 if you are, or if you aspire to be, or think you may be a professional poker player and you are willing and able to speak at the table, then please make sure that you attempt to speak to ALL players and not simply to those who fit into your peer group.

 Let me try and keep to this one small battle that might be winnable. That is why I don't want people widening it out.

Yeah - moaners gonna moan, etc.  However, if we don't talk about and promote change it will never happen.  I'm sure a lot of much more seemingly insurmountable problems have been overcome than getting poker players to be inclusive rather than exclusive when they talk to each other at a table.

This.  The problem is that many are so much in their 'bubble' that they lack any empathy with others outside it who are sat at their table.  They are basically unaware how others perceive them - except for their immediate peers - who of course act in the same way.


I think some will need lessons.  A Mr Channing's Finishing School for (Socially Inept) Poker Players...

I kinda like the pros keeping their hoods up and their cans on. Its their loss.

Neil is correct that some players are very rude talking over or even about another player they are sat next too with their buddy across the table. That's just plain ignorance.

On the other hand though its not a good idea to give away too much about yourself to players you have never played with before either. I have noticed good pros like to chat with everyone to glean info about whether a player has sattied in or bought in. Is the buy in out of their comfort zone? Are they local?  It's not so much that they are such friendly people, just getting info.

Now I would never tell them to stop being so nosey but they could show a bit more class about it.

Benny Chen took his seat on Saturday as an amateur with a dream. The restaurant manager from Prince Edward Island, Canada plunked down his $1,500 in flight A and failed to make it through. Flight B played out differently and his second entry ultimately resulted in a $1.1 million score that has changed his life forever. Chen earned his first WSOP bracelet on Tuesday and immediately provided the 2013 WSOP with a story it's going to repeat for years to come. He is the 26th player to earn a seven-figure score on the WSOP felt.

Although he is definitely not an amateur, pretty poor journalistic skills. I'm not sure you should call people out in blogs. However your overall point is well made and something I've long been an advocate for in both live and online games. I've been chatting a bit with the other players when my table numbers go down and been reminding some pros of their duty not to berate recreational players.Most know but can't help themselves, which is really sad. 

@Gouty, wouldn't one of the first questions you ask someone you got chatting to is "so, where are you from?" Hardly a ploy for information. I know what you mean but it sounds like another case of the poker professional literally never being able to be given credit by anyone. If I chat I'm being insincere and if I don't I'm ignorant.

I took my iPod to a game in Sheffield and one night used it for 3 songs, and the week after about 5. It made me happy to be able to chat. Always dreading the "so are you professional  question though".

 Aspades.     SCHADENFREUDE....."pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others"  may be a big part of this issue?

Prevelent in English society generally not so prevelant in American society.

Players don`t realise the harm they do by berating other so called weaker players both at the table and behind their backs and from many years of observing this quite often it is the clever berating player who is actually equally poor or even worse playing wise than the player they are criticising! Funny eh.

Think there is too much emphasis placed on the idea of pros being in a clique. It's fun talking to randomers but it's also fun chatting with someone who you've clocked thousands of hours with online, share a ton of mutual friends with and of course the same profession.

I've had great times interacting with unusual characters from different walks of life at the table, but I get super excited when I play with some online hero irl for the first time.

Exactly here my tweeting exchange started with Neil.

In Vegas I spoke to about 30 amateurs in great depth about life, where they come from etc.

I then got put on fu 15s table and we spoke about online MTTs for 90 mins I didn't even look at any of the amateurs and I was engrossed in his presence. He is sonebody I' was super interested about.

Put it this way your favourite footballer (teddy is a good example) you speak to him for your entire time asking him about everything and not engaging the amateurs. If somebody did this they would be deemed totally fine.

In golden nugget I sat next to a guy I've spoken to online for 3 years. We chatted about everything and it was great to meet. Next to him was a woman who I never spoke to but I was very polite. Our table broke I wished her good luck.  Or the rest of the tournament she found me on every break when I was usually with my friends laughing an being very loud and smiled and asked how I was getting on.

There's just so many examples I could get in to but it feels like everybody is jumping on this bandwagon because it's the thig that ppl care about right now. Think a lot of it is completely exaggerated and not balanced. Never saw the mention of the grump guy who slow rolled me or the guy who told me to shut the fuck up you hobbit when it was the guy behind me on the rail fist pumping when hi friend 2 outtered the 50 year old.

!!!!

Hobbit though.

Haha was pretty hilarious. I was a long bubble period and I went from 20k - 55k without showdown and was playing dry aggressive. The guy was tiltig very hard. I went to te oiler and pab told me he was saying nasty things about me.

I 4bet him pre flop with aces and he folded.

Nex hand he 4bcalls 77 v 22 v another young guy. 2 Otr for chunks and young friend goes BOOOOOM and then the oroental middle aged guy lays into me Rofl.

I took it classy obv !

For those who've never been to Vegas, The Oiler is an open minded establishment just outside the Rio.

Yup. Oiler Gulch.

Can't less this pass.  FU15 is your hero?

That's the one.

I'm told.

Am currently playing a £40 comp at Broadway and am sharing a table with two chaps who are so perfectly as described in the OP, I think BadBeat has actually paid two local actors to seek me out.

"Oh mate, you've just joined the weirdest table", number one opens. He then proceeds to slag off the play of one of the players at the table's play in 'MTTGrinderSpeak', while number two is multitabling on his 'phone on Stars.

I could play Willy Waving Bingo and tick off the comments as they are made: re-float, c-jam, tilt range...

But I intend instead to get the rest of the table talking, in the hope that these two are - as I expect - entirely normal, nice guys and are perfectly capable of joining in with a bit of fun on a Friday night.

Also, while I'm typing this, one of them just said "do you read Neil Channing's blog?" and I can't be bothered to re-write this more favourably.

 :hello:

The other one just laughed, so I assume he does.

Just to report, chappie number two turned out to be good company. Chappie number one bust in a reasonably standard pot, where the opponent made a rather questionable call on the flop but turned the universe draw and wasn't passing. Chappie number one then had a hissy fit that causes the rest of the comp to notice his exit. He makes a few sarcastic comments to his conqueror and to his mate about his conqueror.

I had fun and so, I hope, did everyone else.

Some grumpy sausages out there.