blonde poker forum

partz major, im 2/155, bubble just burst. i won 5 or 6 pots in row on bubble.

villain was only one who played back at all.

blinds behind been super tight but its bubble


villain opens at 750/1500 to 3k from ep and 65k stack
i have 110k otb

blinds have 13 and 12k

3bet or flat?

we got jj

what do you have?

i flat

What is ave stack size?

I think 3bet because you cant bluff call. Suits your image well, people love to spew too. 7235 ish. Flat absolutely fine and wouldnt mind either I imagine i do both depending on mood

why

I 3b slightly bigger than rfg around 7.5 to 8k small enough to open betting again if a blind shoves so it really depends on accurate chip counts

Tight players (blinds) are usually more concerned about their relation to average stack.2/155 is pretty cool.

It's  gotta be a raise here as calling opens a whole can of pish which is not cool when you are 2/155.

You will either be flipping v a shorty with a decent hand or folding to a 4 bet.

3b/fold is awful. why would we 3bet/fold the 4th best hand in poker? Its not like we are 2nd vs 1st in tournament positions here, we have double his stack.

I think it's just an uber sexy 3 bet fold so up yours aggro santos.  weeeeeeeeeee

3 bet fold for sure

I like 3b here I think. If villain is as described then I would expect him to 4b/f a decent % which is a pretty good result. The reason I like a 3b here is because we can def have a decent % of bluffs in this spot with hands that are a bit annoying to peel with like some Ax and K10o etc but are happy to call off against the shorties after 3betting.

Anyway with current image and dynamic I feel like villain might get stubborn whether it be with 4b/f or peeling wider. I guess the merits of flatting are that the shorties in the blinds may jam a slightly wider range than what they would if you'd have 3b but I still think they're gonna be fairly tight in this spot probably doesn't make that much of a difference.

3bet fold??????? Are people mad?

The way you have described it is that villain is the only one playing back at you, you've been really active and you've got jacks. Deffo 3bet get it in.

Confirmed mad.

He's opened from EP on a 10 handed table with the bubble just burst therefore a table full of jamming stacks, he has pretty much zero light opens.
Abs hatting life if he 4b's, just take him to the streets.
Getting JJ in for 40 big ones vs an EP open will almost certainly be -cEV imo
Great stack too for this stage of the comp, a lot of utility, your going to find far greater spots to accumulate than this one.

I always 3 bet call. But it's f***in Party. they do always have it.

well i wouldnt expect him to rip so much, but we can maybe induce a 4bet fold, im not sure how great we do vs him 4bcall range tho.

We are aggro.  As such, we can't have a 3 bet range consisting entirely of bluffs, and a calling range full of monsters.  Our entire strategy would surely be spew then?

Depends what they know about our strategy. http://youtu.be/EklCI7D7Rns

Pinchop I feel like quite a few players just carry on being aggro and wouldn't correctly adjust to the bubble bursting. Plus he can still open hands like A9s QJs 66 etc.

its all about perceived ranges

Not at all. It's all about looking after that lovely stack you have built up and keeping your tourney equity nice and juicy. Your 3 bet will look pretty strong to opening raiser even with the bubble action with him. For 6% of your stack you get to put him to the test. If he plays back he is playing for stacks. Fold. Wait for a better spot.

this

would be concerned with what his utg open % is, but this is such a sweet spot with an aggro dynamic on the button, finger twirl territory. if there are a bunch of shorties and/or hes not been stealing from utg a lot or no battling, then yeah flat. 3b fold is horrible.

You can construct a sentence, why the youtube clip? 

It isn't like it makes much sense either, you sit there raising every hand for a circuit, even the most slow witted of your rivals aren't going to have you pegged as a nit.  They may not know your entire strategy, but there is a fair chance they have seen you go raise, raise, raise, raise, raise, raise, call though?  I am not sure there are that many people who do that who call with their weakest hands either.

Doobs, he isnt thinking like that though. Its so  important to understand our perceived range, and even uif weve gone raise, raise, call, hes not going to care, hes going to have tptk and not think ah hes prob got aces here, hes going to think, boom we got a sick spot vs the aggro tard chip leader.

also btw guz was like ep3 rather than utg.

Adds some flair to my posts. I pretty much stated my thoughts earlier, personally I feel it is a touch transparent to flat, we never have a weak hand with the two shorties being about, but it is hard to know if our opponent knows this. I'd prefer to carry on being aggressive with our image and hope to make our opponent snap. Obviously it isn't ideal and we may be behind, but I don't think our opponent will find a hero fold with 99/TT or such like, we get into a few flips and have his range that calls the 3bet fairly crushed. Initiative is very nice. We don't always have to 3bet for our all in equity, having him peeling when we have such a strong hand is fantastic too.

If our 3bet range was purely weak hands and our flatting range purely monsters then our opponents would find it very easy to exploit us. But they will never get the sample to find this out. We can create a big edge for ourselves by adjusting our ranges at different points. For example, Pads might have 3bet the  Kd 5d here the orbit before, and I believe our opponent will still expecting him to be frisky, so I would 3bet. However, I also believe that he isn't going to put us on a strong hand here when we flat, although in my opinion he probably should.

if this guy has a 4b/fold range then surely 3b/5b/jam is miles and away the best play. If, as suggested by others his opening range is wide enough and he's gonna mae more stubborn calls but will have a magnum 4b range then 3bet/fold is prolly the best play right?

If neither assumption is correct (he will never 4b light and wont make too many stubborn calls) then this is when flatting starts to show more merit. I don't think there is anything wrong is flatting with the dominant reason being we would have no idea how to react to a 4bet, but obviously we will make more money if we can make an accurate assumption on his reaction to our 3bet and use an appropiate strategy.

BTW I think it's a common theme for people not to give enough credit to players, I think even quite poor players are a lot more conscious of what is happening then people assume, even if it might be a little sub-conscious.

Flat has to be fairly healthily +ev but nowhere near as good as 3b/5b. We have to size our 3b carefully though, I think I make it like 6.5-7k. Cannot envisage how people are considering 3b/f given our image.

LilDave wins imo

I don't actually understand what he said? Is it 3 bet/f or 3//5/jam. My point is if oppo 4 bets he is stacking off unless he is v good and click folds with airball. Hey do we want to flip with this much TE?

Love it if a shorty reshoves depending on matey boys action.

i just think this is too much  "if" "if" "if" its one of those that we dont know exactly what he will do. If I did I wouldnt have posted the thread.

Its about trying to make an overall assumption and weighing up the different pros and cons.

The biggest con for me is that getting in 65bbs would really harm our stack vs a value 4b call range. Im not sure the chips we gain from him 4b folding, which we are not even certain he will do ever anyway compensate enough for that.

I think in a vacuum now that flatting pre and playing post flop, whilst sometimes getting in vs a 10bb weak range and a relatively weak 65bb reshove range has to be the best option, but im definitely happy if somebody comes and says different and proves me wrong.

Flatting should be the default play. Adjust from there based on reads. It requires only a tentative read to choose 3bet/jam instead of flatting. 3bet/fold needs a very defined read though.

mmm. Yh I guess not worded all too well, basically I'm saying we should prolly flat because we don't know if they guy's 4b range is full of folds or super premium, I'm saying that flatting because we can't make an accurate assumption on his tendencies vs our 3bet is not (as has been suggested slightly) a bad thing, "proceed into the unknown with caution" as they say.

The first paragraph telling us what we already know, if he's gonna 4b/fold lots then 3b/5b, if he's gonna peel loads and only 3bet monster monsters then 3b/fold, and paragraph two saying if we can't answer those 2 questions then just flat.

lots of people saying lots of different stuff about the play on party, I have no idea so couldn't comment. Quite nitty site, UTG 10handed open... 3b/5b seems a touch worrying.

Love just having a really polarised 3betting range in these spots, so I would always flat here.