blonde poker forum

Just a quickie

I open the button at 1000/2000/300to 4500 with  Ks Js from 80k
Richie Pearson is small blind. Richie had finished as chip leader the night before with just shy of 400k but had won three seats and was playing his 'spare'. He may be locked up with a view to just augmenting his stack, but I've been reasonably active when it's folded to me in late position and we know each other from occasional meetings locally.

He raises to 11500 playing 140k

Call or fold? Or indeed, some other option...

If you call, what do you do on a K high flop when he bets 11500

and again, if you call what do you do on very brick turn and river cards when he checks?

I call for sure. We'd have quite a dynamic though.

If it came K92 he bet, we call. then he checked a 6 turn. I'd check back and get some value on the river. I think we have the best hand a lot here, but we don't have a strong enough hand to go for a full double. 18.8k on the river.

What rkssnfhakbdjsggsj said.

I'm reliably informed there isn't much point 4betting and turning your hand into a bluff, but we should defend in position fairly often, especially with a hand that flops well.

Also, we might get aces to fold on the flop ;)

Definitely peeling pre.  Calling 2 streets on k high board as mentioned.  If he checks turn on k high board im probably going for 3 streets or bet turn check back river, but i prefer 3 streets.  reasoning is with kq ak aa he should be piling the turn for sure as lots of your showdown hands will be checking back and hel miss value.  Checking back turn and betting river is my least preferred line because the river rarely gets hero called as a bet ck bet line is rarely a bluff!

id fold pre vs 90% of people in a live 300 tournament, its just so read dependent so we cant give you good advice imo

I'd call pre vs 90% of people in a live 300 tournament

3 streets with just top pair in a 3bet pre pot sounds like it will often be thin. Understand the reasoning for betting the turn, especially if the board is wet.

That said, if it comes K66 and we call chappie's cbet and then bet the turn when checked to us and the turn is a badugi 2, we are going to get called by lots of pairs on the river.

I'd call pre vs everyone except stu in a live 300 tournament

 :dontask: :dontask: :dontask: :dontask:

In position with antes in play when it's perfect spot for him to make our stack size  feel awkward, seems weak to fold KJ suited here? Big raise size feels like a steal, thoughts on a 4 bet?? Given position, I'm call>raise>fold here, at ratio of probs 70% of times call/20 raise/10 fold

Deffo a peel. Especially if you have a dynamic

Quite right too. You gotta recognise when you're outclassed ;)

Fold pre plenty of other spots to come

You're seriously folding K-J suited on the button, un-opened pot??

No I would open and then fold to the 11.5k reraise

ah ok, makes more sense.

Still doesn't make sense to fold a hand this strong, very and easily exploitable and a pretty easy hand to play postflop

Why would you ever consider exploitability vs somebody in a 300 live tournament readless

Population tendencies

-not many light 3bets
-mot ,any depolarized ranges
-stack depth is even shallower than expected because spr will be reduced significantly with expected Chet size from random live opponent

Your right but A) We have reads. B) Why would we not have reads? First hand at the table I can agree to you to some extent but we still have a really good suited hand.

There is no reads stated in op.

Suited ness is not going to be much use when there's an spr of 4:1 and we likely will see a big flop bet.

I don't think calling is that bad I just think its a spot 99% of players auto do and don't think about folding

We know who he is and he is chipleader for a while. Fairly reasonable to extrapolate that he's much more likely to be good, loose and aggressive than not.

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

*Falls off chair*

Anyone else now thinking we should have 4bet pre and might have got a fold?

:)

[  ] shocked that we were dominated

results oriented thinking? :-)

Yer, peel a flop with a hand that flops very well.

I said it pre results!!

Against the villain described I would always (at least previously) peel here.

This said, Pleno - the part of your post concerning the likely cbet size is something that I think is hugely valid and I would likely never have considered previously.

We start the hand with 40bb, raise to 2.25bb and get 3bet to 5.75bb.

If we peel there is going to be 27.7k in the middle (assuming 9-handed) or equivalent of 13.85bb with us having 34.25bb back.

Assuming he seems the sort to cbet like 2/3rds pot (lets assume he continues for 19k), there are now going to be 23.5bb in the middle leaving us a SPR of 1.5x

.....so we're basically going to have to decide on the flop if we're going with it or not. An easy decision if we wiff or smash of course, but one that we're facing a decent chunk of the time with relatively marginal holdings.

ie. What do we do on AJ4r, 10 9 x s etc.

--> Pleno, is this kind of what you meant?


Allllll of which said, I don't think I would ever find the fold in-game!

Yeah part of being better than these guys is extracting our post flop edge, which is realized far more when 1) spr is as great as possible and 2) we have initiative

Examples of how we could win the pot

Flop comes 872sxx and he bets we call and bet turn when checked to

We would want to bet 1/3 or even 1/4 ott which would be great vs Internet players who will 3bet q8s pre flop because its the worst hand they want to fold (polarized range) and Chet 1/3 pot for balance and future maneouvability, thus making kjs a very easy cll pre flop, but vs guys who will mash the pot button and bet extremely big it's a lot harder to play a pot and realize our edge and play such a deceivingly "pretty" hand.

Where does the line stop? Would people itt rather call qts or kjs?

We are also not considering reverse Implied odds when e get it I'm on numerous boards and are behind and often dominated ( I don't expect locals to 3bet their natural adjust,nt will be to peel wider rather than take an aggressive adjustment) ((population tendencies show fish are generally passive rather than aggressive)

Also I don't think villain has been described as super aggressive etc if so then I would call.

But also preserving our stack, having a very good 3bet/fold stack and keeping us big enough to continually r/f vs guys who will be weak and scared are all factors.

Like I said call is whatever but you've got to be at least considering all of the extra factors rather than having the close minded approach of lol suited Broadway's probs Gna improve

Or just do,what the true greats of mtts do and never lose a flip seems an easier way.

KJs is what, top 8%? And we're opening what, 35-40% otb?

I know :)

I thought that was a great post pleno tbf

Thx