Deepstack hand

[dwayne110]

ah ok, makes more sense.

[wazz]

ah ok, makes more sense.

Still doesn't make sense to fold a hand this strong, very and easily exploitable and a pretty easy hand to play postflop

[pleno1]

ah ok, makes more sense.

Still doesn't make sense to fold a hand this strong, very and easily exploitable and a pretty easy hand to play postflop

Why would you ever consider exploitability vs somebody in a 300 live tournament readless

Population tendencies

-not many light 3bets
-mot ,any depolarized ranges
-stack depth is even shallower than expected because spr will be reduced significantly with expected Chet size from random live opponent

[rfgqqabc]

ah ok, makes more sense.

Still doesn't make sense to fold a hand this strong, very and easily exploitable and a pretty easy hand to play postflop

Why would you ever consider exploitability vs somebody in a 300 live tournament readless

Population tendencies

-not many light 3bets
-mot ,any depolarized ranges
-stack depth is even shallower than expected because spr will be reduced significantly with expected Chet size from random live opponent

Your right but A) We have reads. B) Why would we not have reads? First hand at the table I can agree to you to some extent but we still have a really good suited hand.

[pleno1]

There is no reads stated in op.

Suited ness is not going to be much use when there's an spr of 4:1 and we likely will see a big flop bet.

I don't think calling is that bad I just think its a spot 99% of players auto do and don't think about folding

[wazz]

We know who he is and he is chipleader for a while. Fairly reasonable to extrapolate that he's much more likely to be good, loose and aggressive than not.

[david3103]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

[rfgqqabc]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

*Falls off chair*

[Tal]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

*Falls off chair*

Anyone else now thinking we should have 4bet pre and might have got a fold?

[pleno1]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

[  ] shocked that we were dominated

[david3103]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

[  ] shocked that we were dominated

results oriented thinking? :-)

[NoCardDSC]

Yer, peel a flop with a hand that flops very well.

[pleno1]

I called pre and called the bet on the bet on the flop.
I thought his range for 3bettjng was fairly tight, but included enough hands that KJs played well against and that his bet on the flop was to be expected with pretty much 100% of his range.

We checked it down from there and although I was tempted to put in a bet on the river I opted to check behind.

He showed AK.

[  ] shocked that we were dominated

results oriented thinking? :-)

I said it pre results!!

[edgascoigne]

Against the villain described I would always (at least previously) peel here.

This said, Pleno - the part of your post concerning the likely cbet size is something that I think is hugely valid and I would likely never have considered previously.

We start the hand with 40bb, raise to 2.25bb and get 3bet to 5.75bb.

If we peel there is going to be 27.7k in the middle (assuming 9-handed) or equivalent of 13.85bb with us having 34.25bb back.

Assuming he seems the sort to cbet like 2/3rds pot (lets assume he continues for 19k), there are now going to be 23.5bb in the middle leaving us a SPR of 1.5x

.....so we're basically going to have to decide on the flop if we're going with it or not. An easy decision if we wiff or smash of course, but one that we're facing a decent chunk of the time with relatively marginal holdings.

ie. What do we do on AJ4r, 10 9 x s etc.

--> Pleno, is this kind of what you meant?


Allllll of which said, I don't think I would ever find the fold in-game!

[pleno1]

Yeah part of being better than these guys is extracting our post flop edge, which is realized far more when 1) spr is as great as possible and 2) we have initiative

Examples of how we could win the pot

Flop comes 872sxx and he bets we call and bet turn when checked to

We would want to bet 1/3 or even 1/4 ott which would be great vs Internet players who will 3bet q8s pre flop because its the worst hand they want to fold (polarized range) and Chet 1/3 pot for balance and future maneouvability, thus making kjs a very easy cll pre flop, but vs guys who will mash the pot button and bet extremely big it's a lot harder to play a pot and realize our edge and play such a deceivingly "pretty" hand.

Where does the line stop? Would people itt rather call qts or kjs?

We are also not considering reverse Implied odds when e get it I'm on numerous boards and are behind and often dominated ( I don't expect locals to 3bet their natural adjust,nt will be to peel wider rather than take an aggressive adjustment) ((population tendencies show fish are generally passive rather than aggressive)

Also I don't think villain has been described as super aggressive etc if so then I would call.

But also preserving our stack, having a very good 3bet/fold stack and keeping us big enough to continually r/f vs guys who will be weak and scared are all factors.

Like I said call is whatever but you've got to be at least considering all of the extra factors rather than having the close minded approach of lol suited Broadway's probs Gna improve