blonde poker forum

I am utg +1 with xx

Utg calls, I call, 4 further callers inc sb

Bb raises it up, utg folds and I make a show of thinking, cards visible in front of me, when the other players quickly fold and I point out I am still to act.

Floor is called who says that my handnia dead as I have gained knowledge by the others folding.

I reply that I beleive he has made the wrong decision, as does the bb, but the ruling stands and my hand is mucked

Thoughts from the more experienced types please

If two or more to act after you fold I think it is dead unfortunately.

I think your hand is live. you have not acted and have no control of other players mucking their hands, surely??

Two answers, two different thoughts

Any more?

Pretty sure this is correct and hand is dead.

I think this is wrong. I'm sure it was three or more. Unless it's changed? Also probably dependant on where you are playing.

makes no difference the number its one of the most stupid rules out there

action is on you you shouldnt have too break your concentration and your thinking of what your going too do
to make sure people dont start acting out of turn easy way too angle shoot

player A bets Player B is thinking Player C and D both call and know that player B's hand is dead pretty sick rule

If what is described as "significant action" has taken place then yes, your hand would indeed be declared dead. The definition of significant action varies between card rooms, but in most places is defined as two actions so in this instance two folds is enough.

It's similar in nature to the string bet rule, where more angles are shot through lack of discretion than through breaking the rule itself. This is basically a dealer mistake and you're super unlucky to actually have this ruling given against you.

Never ever  ever heard of this ruling being applied... and if so it's completely and utterly terrible. If that's in their guidlines then he's ruled 'correctly', but it's an absurd rule. Clearly the only people in the wrong are those who have folded out of turn, they should be warned and it should be on you. It's obviously bad for the bb, but no way on earth your hand should be dead. Anyone actually agree that the ruling is 'right'? Makes no sense to me at all, you can't punish a player and declare a hand dead after doing nothing wrong, surely??

I think it's 3 people. I do hate the rule though. I remember this coming up before and have found the thread:

See here: http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=49967.0

Yep pretty standard ruling unfortunately. My big bear paws used to hide my cards and as a result I had it happen to me. Just be Louie Spence and make a big deal about everything you are doing.

REALLY?

Horrible rule

Heard about this before i'd be devo'd if happened to me.

Ouch

Most cardrooms use the significant action as 2 actions with chips and 3 without chips

i.e.
fold fold or check check is not significant

call call, call fold or call raise OR check check check for example are significant.

(If you are dwelling and can't see out the corner of your eye that chips are going into the pot and action is on you, take your bloody sun glasses off, and if you never heard a check or all-in, take your bloody headphones off :) )

If you call time or it is noticed by the dealer before significant action. Then hand is still live.

There has been many times I have indicated to a player that the action is on them and players infront decide to pass/fold. If I call time and 5 people fold after I am not killing the players hand. And other players will get warning.

Correct. Painful, but true. The Ruling was correct, & when it happens to you, it does seem harsh. (Been there). The point is, whilst we were doing our think thing, THREE players behind is domino-folded, & we never noticed?......

i do appreciate the ruling in that it could be a way of people angle shooting/gaining information, however, at the time i had acknowledged the raise, and was looking down at my chips to make it look like i was weighing it up (while secretly knowing i was going to see the flop for that price.

when the folds came from the other players it was almost as fast as an online "click to autofold", i had zero chance to realise they were folding before their cards had been slid across the line. When the floor came over the dealer did admit that it was his mistake, and both floor and dealer agreed i done nothing wrong, but a ruling was made and had to stand.

i did however, from then on, make it clear to the dealer that i was:

1) still in a hand

2) thinking of my own action

3) fume for 10-20 seconds before shrugging it off and cracking on with the rest of the tournament

thanks for the input folks

Mick

Think everyone else has covered it. On the whole, a player should be expected to notice that two people have folded to his left, so it is more likely as a rule to catch those seeking to gain an advantage than it is to punish the innocent. Unfortunately, you got caught in the latter category, which is a shame.

The dealer should know who has cards and, provided yours were visible, you can give the dealer an eye roll after the ruling. No more, though. We aren't animals.

Having to muck a pair of Xs is pretty galling, too.

<3

is this type of ruling open to abuse??  if you end up playing on a table with lots of mate, who can take it in turn to muck hands quickly???
shouldn't those players mucking out of turn have some type penalty too like a 'one round yellow card'??

This is one of those rules that should be applied with some common sense. If I'm thinking and the 3 people after me decide to all fold within a second of each other then I'd expect to still be live. If I'm sat there and they take like 5 seconds to fold and I've simply failed to notice then I'd expect a dead hand.

Problem easily solved by calling without moody dwell?

Never even heard of this or seen it. I love Blonde. Learn something every week.

outrageous ruling, common sense needs to prevail surely.  I think its pretty unfair to expect someone currently making a decision to also be the table policeman and spot people passing out of turn.  I think its really easy with the domino effect to have 3 players fold out of turn caused by 1 player mistakenly folding out of turn before they have a reasonable chance to react.

This is surely a dealer fault as they should be stopping action asap when someone acts out of turn and making it clear who is to act.  I dont see how a player should be expected to react faster to this than the dealer.

Obv its a different story if the player clearly sees them folding out of turn and says and does nothing but I think they should have a reasonable amount of time to react no matter how many people act behind.

Dealer mistakes happen. We're all aware of situations where players hands are gathered into the muck in error and there's no redress for that either.
Card guards and being aware of what's happening around you minimises the risk.

From  http://www.wsop.com/poker-rules/index.asp


Players must call "time" in order to retain their right to act. Should they not make the call before three or more subsequent players have acted on their hand, they will lose the right to act. In the case that players behind you act out of turn, causing you to miss your turn, this rule does not apply. Only your own action or failure to act can cause you to lose your turn.

I don't see how the situation can arise without players behind acting out of turn so am, as is often the case, confused. But there is no suggestion that the hand is dead.