Title: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: paulhouk03 on October 18, 2013, 12:50:43 AM We have 750k
Villain has 400k Blinds are 12 24 with 3 k ante 9 handed Villain hasn't got too ool but seems to loosen up in lp Third hand on ft folded to him on button he open jams 400 k What's our range? Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: CHIPPYMAN on October 18, 2013, 01:06:48 AM JJ plus
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: NoCardDSC on October 18, 2013, 01:39:11 AM Depends slightly on how many chips everyone else has, but generally calling it off with 77+ AJ + at a quick glance.
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: paulhouk03 on October 18, 2013, 07:25:54 AM Depends slightly on how many chips everyone else has, but generally calling it off with 77+ AJ + at a quick glance. There isn't huge pay jumps Shortest is around 300 -400 which 3 players has around that much Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: PathFinder on October 18, 2013, 09:29:32 AM 99+ AQ+ would probably be my calling range here I think that should be easily above 50% of his open shoving range here
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: pleno1 on October 18, 2013, 09:35:18 AM JJ plus absurdly tight. 88 is a call and we should probably call even wider. not folding aq and aj most likely a call. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: pleno1 on October 18, 2013, 09:36:00 AM just play about with pokerstove or equilab to find out how well we actually do vs these kind of ranges.
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: Nit Tendencies on October 18, 2013, 11:20:42 AM I think because of how much it destroys our utility value if we lose the pot, we should be calling quite tight. If we put ourselves in the mindset of the live player, what type of hands are thy going to open jam here and "risk their tournament life"?
I'm going to go for a controversial 88+, AK. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: pleno1 on October 18, 2013, 11:44:58 AM i mean just cant see how aq oculd be a fold with the likelyness of him raise claling his absolute premiums and likely shipping hands we dominate so much. 88 and aq i can just about go for.
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: lucky_scrote on October 18, 2013, 01:07:05 PM Need to know all the stacks really. We have an amazing stack obviously and if a load of other people have 400k or thereabouts you can make incredibly tight folds.
Let's assume we are 3/9 and have an average stack or so then I'm going with 77+ ATo+ A9s+ KQ+ which is pretty tight. Generally, someone open jamming this stack doesn't have the top part of his range included because it's a 16bb jam and most people will induce with really strong hands which is why I feel really happy when I have pairs on my hand. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: gouty on October 18, 2013, 01:24:06 PM Too many unknown factors here.
I think it's important on final tables to think about the standard of the players, and your position in relation to any v good players. I would be more inclined to flip with the better players and not the solid ones. So in essence if I were up against Patrick or Dan in this spot I would use their own calling ranges and if it were Frankie I would use his. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: lucky_scrote on October 18, 2013, 01:32:05 PM Actually the range I gave isn't quite tight, it's about right. So if there are any factors that mean you need to be a bit tighter I prob just take out A9s and ATo but gl making me fold anything better than that.
Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: gouty on October 18, 2013, 02:02:33 PM Thinking about more. This is a huge inflection point because if we call and lose our tourney equity falls way more than it increases if we win.
On the other hand if we call light and win we are sending a pretty strong message right at the start of a ft. I know this sounds weird but I tend to fold 88 and call with AQ as we dominate more combos in this spot. I always seems to flipping when I call with 88/99 and even TT on ft open shoves or is that just bs? Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: millidonk on October 18, 2013, 02:14:48 PM I see lots of the older generation jamming in these spots with the top of their range, I personally love shoving all value hands if I am him on the button, speshly with some youngish internet guy in the bb who will probs call you with any 8 in his hand let alone a marginal holding.. ;)
Surely we know something about villain? age? When you say loosen up has he just been opening as standard or open jamming? Generic calling range of 88+ AQ+ Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: gouty on October 18, 2013, 02:37:10 PM I suppose the fact he is more active in position should mean he is competent which in turn widens our calling range, which is what pleno said. Like he would induce with the top of his range.
Looking forward to finding out OPs hand and what he did. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: lucky_scrote on October 18, 2013, 03:43:11 PM I suppose the fact he is more active in position should mean he is competent which in turn widens our calling range, which is what pleno said. Like he would induce with the top of his range. Looking forward to finding out OPs hand and what he did. It's only interesting if the jammer ends up showing the bottom of his range, even then you don't know what his range is :/. Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: paulhouk03 on October 18, 2013, 06:17:04 PM I see lots of the older generation jamming in these spots with the top of their range, I personally love shoving all value hands if I am him on the button, speshly with some youngish internet guy in the bb who will probs call you with any 8 in his hand let alone a marginal holding.. ;) Surely we know something about villain? age? When you say loosen up has he just been opening as standard or open jamming? Generic calling range of 88+ AQ+ I think I was around 4/9 table was under average Had position on wadey But had Chris sly n Alan armatige n herbie on my left but felt comfortable. Third hand on the final table first time I seen villain jam in lp where he usually raises as standard Wadey tank folded I snapped with 9 s he had q s Not too sure if I'm being results orientated here but I think I could find better spots to gamble with my stack And apply pressure on the ladderers Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: PathFinder on October 18, 2013, 08:15:07 PM 99+ AQ+ would probably be my calling range here I think that should be easily above 50% of his open shoving range here I snapped with 9 s he had q s Soul Read :) Title: Re: Ft of the 150 facing open jam Post by: muckthenuts on October 20, 2013, 12:17:11 AM Nah you can't really look down at 99 and fold it's def too nitty. The structure for this is decent but not so great you can afford to pass that up. Calling deffo +ev so dw about it.
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