blonde poker forum

nobody more than 11k, nobidy less than 9k.

635 buy in. its reentry, 10k starting, BB 30.


im utg with Ac Ks

i fold.

thoughts?

up the max bet in our scoop prop

if you wish to play it passively then limp call > open fold??

sick level pads, #gotem

Timeout?

I know a tight range utg is optimal, but surely AK is good enough to open?

why? how many chips do u estimate you gain from opening? how will you gain these chips? how much did you assume were reverse implied?

in that case wouldnt it be better not to have a raising range UTG this deep? Just limp our entire range that we would usually open and just attempt to cooler?

I find it hard questioning someone with your undoubted credentials and history, but surely people will call with worse and allow you to gain some value from lesser hands? I know we're out of position and I'm not suggesting going crazy with one pair type hands post flop or getting into 3b/5b wars pre.

Big stacks grow from small acorns and all that.

However I completely understand the point you're making with your question. I also like and admire the way you're questioning the standard line and looking for tiny edges to improve your game. Can I counter your question with two of my own.....
1. What would be your utg range here?  QQ+?

2. Would you open AKo in similar position in a smaller buy-in game assuming a weaker field and people playing worse hands sub optimally post flop?

Cant open AA here either. Then have to bet fold a J 3 6 flop :)

There could easily be 1 or 2 huge fish to act and in a presumably reggy event their chips are even more valuable. This would be a pretty bad fold to make, esp when you can play postflop better than most.

I think there are some interesting points about this sort of thing. This early in the tournament, with the blinds this small in relation to our stack, do we really think we're going to make loads of chips from flopping top pair with AK? I think there is a fair amount to be said for only playing hands that can flop well enough that we are happy playing big pots with. We're talking pairs like 88+, and decent suited Ax hands, going for those coolers. I don't think we're ever going to be happy getting involved in a big pot with this hand this early in the tournament.


I think it's fine to have a raising range this deep when we're looking to cooler people, or just flop hands with big play potential (yes I'm reading too much PLO stuff) because this obviously makes it much easier for us to get stacks in.

Not saying I would do this, but tbh, I quite like this sort of thinking. Obviously a lot of it depends on table, if everyone is never folding a pair then I think folding here is bad :p

lol ok pleno

Mis-click?

Also for the record, i think this is a level, and pads opened and lost some in a reverse implied spot, or just hypothetically made it up ;)

lolz

Lololol

Xoxo

I mean im still sure this is a level but if it isn't then what you're saying is in a 9 handed NL table 300 big blinds deep you can't make money with an Ace and a King preflop.

in a cash game playing 300bb deep id likely be playing against v v bad players and would probably 6-7x AK pre flop. against players who will be calling tight ranges and with hands that flop well vs me and wont put much in with worse when i hit tptk.

its often going to go multiway and my hand doesnt play great, im not particuarly keen on realizing my equity by doing bluffs at this stage, which in a cash game id be way more comfortable doing some funky stuff, overbetting etc

fwiw i raised pre, and regretted it. i won the hand though.



if im playing hands that can win big pots like you suggested in another post then quickly reducing spr would be good imo, so raising is better than limping. limping AK is most likely better than raising it though imo.

What? So the average starting table in the Ftops main, an online tournament with 2000 runners and an absolute pile of satellite entrants is much tougher than a 9max NL cash table?

Hands that flop better? So everyone at 15/30 when they have 10,000 chips are folding KQ/KJ/KTs/AQ/AJ/AT/A[2-8]s preflop and just snap folding their AT's on A84r when you cbet?

I admire you're strive to question every "stnd" spot and no doubt that makes you awesome but I can't really buy this, feels like you're over-complicating a simple spot, 2 good cards, lots of chips, weak field = put some chips in...

all of the mtt regs keep firing till they are in for 6 bullets, its definitely one of the hardest tournaments relative to buy in.

id imagine they fold, KQ, KJ, AJ, AT,

its definitely not a weak field imo.

im just saying that i dont think its clear that we definitely make chips by raising this hand, and at pre ante with hands that im not sure about making chips, and especially if nobody can give an argument other than "good cards" then we should probly fold.

i spoke to few people offline who all thought it was pretty wte spot pre and folding def fine and not huge mistake.

we definitely may be the worst tho, and def want to learn!

If you've scanned the table and seen 9 other good regs to act then yeah i can buy folding. But you haven't and said it's the first hand. Who knows who's behind to give you a bunch of chips with a hand that might reverse them.

Seems pretty unlikely, but that's the great thing about poker, YOU JUST MIGHT BE :P

Surely playing AK way more fun than folding it though :P

Work out it's about 7 chips -EV and open anyway to save the shame

youre all foldin aqo right?

Moorman1 was viewing this thread :P

I wanted to post this regarding AK/AQ.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
   Equity   Win   Tie
MP2   43.14%   32.55%   10.58%   { AKo }
MP3   56.86%   46.28%   10.58%   { 99+, AQs+, AKo }

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
   Equity   Win   Tie
MP2   33.31%   30.42%   2.89%   { AQo }
MP3   66.69%   63.81%   2.89%   { 99+, AQs+, AKo }

Just put in a random 4% range to show the difference. Though we might all fold one kicker lower in AQ utg it's arguably a flawed comparison point because of how different the equities are.

come on people play some poker ffs

Why on earth is an equity thingy being run for AKo. This isn't going in pre is it

Can't see how they're going to manage to 6 bullets in if they fold these sort of hands in position vs a utg open.

I wonder what's greater, pleno's utg opening range or triggs utg folding range

well there is a difference between what he says it is on here and the actual range

I said I opened but thought it was incorrect.

I also don't know why people so against spots like this on pha though?? I mean its been running for 8/9 years, how much new content can we deliver between 200 or so of us? I'm just trying to find v different tuff that could potential be good or help us yield more of an edge.

Don't think they are "against" the Post as such, just debating, which is very much different to arguing.

It made me feel less of a super-nit, anyway. ;)

And FWIW, it made me think of how different AK is to play in the early/mid/late stages of an MTT. Late on, even I can play it easily. Early doors, Level One, it's a hand I find quite tough to play, when, typically, half the table call our Bet. 

What about the meta image impact of r/f UTG, does that help or hinder you in the next hour? I've no idea, just asking.

Very little I would have thought this early, I mean its going to happen.

I can't see how open folding AK would be terrible. I think it would be fairly standard to fold AQ in a full ring cash game (online) and we are even deeper here. Folding AK pre seems fine, might even be better than opening imo.

Any scenario where 'usually' we have the best hand we should be opening; we block the hands that coffin us, can flop the nuts, and can value bad weaker Aces. Guess it's a question of confidence in post flop play / preflop play when 3b. Never folding, always opening.

Also you have to factor in number of tables you are playing. Have seen this question asked awhile back
and the results seemed to be fold pre. Guess from this position the hand is also pretty face up should we get
a call.

Pleno did you 4x from UTG this early?