blonde poker forum

6 left. i just made a huge river bluff tht got to showdown, but i won the pot and it was against the big stack.

Full Tilt Poker Game #34272439595: Turbo Hundo (267428025), Table 10 - NL Hold'em - 3000/6000 Ante 750 - 01:18:18 CET - 2014/05/29 [19:18:18 ET - 2014/05/28]
Seat 1: PATER266 (67,984)
Seat 2: Jack4339 (25,662)
Seat 5: Al Robbya (174,227)
Seat 6: DownByDaBridge (126,422)
Seat 7: Sick_Ko (80,454)
Seat 9: pads1161 (80,251)
PATER266 antes 750
Jack4339 antes 750
Al Robbya antes 750
DownByDaBridge antes 750
Sick_Ko antes 750
pads1161 antes 750
Al Robbya posts the small blind of 3,000
DownByDaBridge posts the big blind of 6,000
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [Qs Kh]
Sick_Ko folds
pads1161

r/f, jam, r, f?

Jam.

Unless everyone's nitty then would r/f everyone but Jack.

interesting, everybody i asked said f.

It's a jam in a 180, if you got payouts I'll run it if you want.

wonder how big the river bluff is if we only hav 13.5bb now :P but erm depends on payout, jamming and folding are fine. Jamming can never really be too bad unless payouts are ridic.

KQ feels like the easiest shove in the whole world, unless I'm missing something.

Something like: 66+,A5s+,ATo+,K9s+,KJo+,QTs+,JTs in a top heavy payout structure feels somewhere close to right.

Toms range looks good to me, not sure there are many hands in my r/f range with these stacks

First instincts were it's close, but when you think about the size of your jam compared to the bigger stacks then they would need to call really, really tight.

I wouldn't open here, you are definitely going to be exploited for that vs people with a brain here, so jam instead.

I think doing anything but jamming would be a mistake at this stack depth.

If we had solid reads that everyone behind is really nitty and won't get ool at all then r/f has to be better than jamming, unlikely we'd have such reads though.

Jamming a very high % of the time, and certainly would be my default.

Tomsom's range looks about right, not folding 55 though :P

Think i jam 22+, A2-A5s, A8s+, ATo+, QJs, KJs+ KQo.

KTs kinda bleugh as is A6/A7s and A9o, TJs etc. Dont think i'd ever fold KQ, on very very specific FTs i might r/f to some, but vs decent opponents I jam as standard and am fairly happy about it.

Actually, if i'm jamming A2-A5s i'm jamming KTs and TJs too

22-44 is too wide. KTs>>>>44 in this spot.

Agree with this too.  There would have to be a whole packet of incompetence behind for me to start considering a m/r anything.

i raised, they folded.

Without reading everyone's posts (and leaving myself open to abuse...), the shortie has to be a factor, here. Everyone's shallow, too, so the calling ranges are going to be pretty narrow. Seems like an immedojam to me.

What would you do with KJ?

I would definitely fold here. Obviously it's chip EV to shove but it can't be a winning play ICM wise I don't think.

More of a gangsta image you have here the better raise fold is. Sure Moorman could raise and get it thru way more than a random. DownByDaBridge defo gonna fuck with you a lot tho.

very interesting, almost everybody itt said jam and in other forum i posted everybody said do anything but jam :D

being absurd enough to be able to r/c  would be good

I'm wet for this.

Obv horrif. You trying to win tournaments, most poker players trying to make money.

how is it horrif if u can r/c QKo and be ahead of a jammers range? not saying anyone is this absurd just saying it would be fun if someone was this absurd. Now get regging mug

ICM wise, if we give the following, pretty wide calling ranges :

co : 99+,AQ+
btn : 66+,A9s+,ATo+,KQs
sb : 88+,AJs+,AQo+
bb : 88+,AJ+

We then calculate Hero's range with 0.05 min ev Diff % (or comes to 29.40 in $ev) we get the following jamming range :

(10.1%) 88+,A9s+,AJo+,KTs+,KQo,QTs+,JTs

When we are jamming that range the correct calling ranges should be :

co : (1.4%) QQ+
btn : (4.7%) TT+,AQ+
sb :  (3.3%) JJ+,AQs+,AKo
bb : (3.3%) JJ+,AQs+,AKo

This is based on payouts for Hot 55 so I'm assuming it's similar. I'm failing to see the argument for ever not jamming here yet Pads is saying a lot of people think so, link to thread Pads ? Interested in reasons giving.

Interesting that a few people basically suggested not having a r/f range here but at the same time think anyone who's decent should stick it in hero's eye if we min raise in this spot ?

Confirmed would be fun if DownByDaBridge was jamming 54% so we could make a breakeven r/c  ;)

Overall, I like this jamming range : (17.3%) 55+,A2s+,ATo+,K9s+,KJo+,Q9s+,JTs

Brilliant post, very insightful. Thank you.

My first thoughts on this hand would be to Jam.

Thanks for the post. Really appreciate someone taking the time to do some maths work and then sharing it.

I think i'm right in saying that in terms of ICM it's not simply a question of us having a correct shoving range, because (as opposed to when calculating cEV) if our opponents deviate from what is optimal we also lose money not just our opponents. So if we KNEW our opponents were calling wider than they should then we would have to adjust our range.

It's for that reason that this isn't a jam.

Have you ever seen KQo miss!?! There will be a range where we become indifferent to our opponents actions I believe. However, adjusting some parts of our range to counter our opponents willingness to gamble seems good. Do you think we should just fold the bottom hands in monda range?

Those calling ranges that gave us the 10.1% jamming range, all four positions are wider than I would be calling as std. Considering the edge I gave us for jamming I think folding KQ here as std is clearly a mistake.

I already took out a couple of hands from my concluding range that were inc as a jam.