There isn't, not may not be, a case to answer under criminal law.  Most solicitors practices would bite the gangs arms off to take this up in a civil law court, though they will feed them with similar quotes about crime and predictions of success against someone who is allegedly broke whilst at the same time racking up thousands of pounds in fees for what will ultimately be a painful exercise to cause him some grief in defending the case.

The deal was the gang would give him money to gamble and he did just that, gambling does not guarantee success otherwise I'd be prosecuting Thommo for his tips under the fraud act.  Law can be ambiguous but it's not designed to be, you can wrap many crimes and phrases around this generally, but the bottom line is that people willingly gave him money to gamble in the hope he would make them richer by making others poorer.  The gang lost not because generally gambling results in losing but in this case because they mistakenly gave it to an unreliable muppet to gamble with.

And I'm not making a case for the defence, just pointing out if he does end up with a case to defend it will be in a civil law court, not criminal.

No I'm not, but after 146 pages it seems too many people still can't see the wood for the trees.  

Yes, obtaining money by deception is a crime but you cannot simply apply that phrase to this event or any other simply because you want to because you feel it should be.  Bottom line is he said he would double your money if you gave it to him to gamble with and you knew what gambling meant - it means you might win, you might lose.  He was given money to gamble with and he did, had the results worked out you'd all be rubbing your hands together pocketing the cash, but he lost it.

Turnover?  Did he bet more than he was given, ie more than 80k?  Looks like it.  He said he used some of his money as well as he was using his exchange accounts.  Were records kept detailing exactly what was and what wasn't a club bet?  Doesn't look like it, sloppy management and sloppy gambling, likely impossible to seperate without full access to all accounts and his full co-operation, meaning almost impossible to prove beyond doubt anything other than he gambled, badly.

Perhaps there will be an official police statement soon, perhaps there will be an official response from betfair soon but anyone expecting these, criminal charges and betfair to refund commission as it looks like a group of innocents (though not too innocent to want to make someone else poorer through gambling) got 'grimmed' through their own lack of care, are expecting too much.

Regarding the WSOP stake - what was that exactly for? - you were staking him funds to gamble for you to make money for you, no less no more, he already had your explicit agreement to do this for you as he saw fit as the manager of the money you had already given him, that he chose to mix 'funds' might not be what you intended but not against the law.  Wake up and smell the coffee, lock the thread and only allow mods to post up fluffy answers that the gang will find empathetic, whether they're realistic or not.

You can still make life uncomfortable for him and I expect many are, I would too.

Have the police been informed?

"Officer, I've been the victim of theft, fraud and deception, somebody has stolen my money"

"Deary me sir, how did that happen"

"Well there's this group of us, a few dozen and we all like a bit of a gamble and some of us knew this bloke who also liked a gamble but worse than us, he was a mad gambler and chucked fifty pound notes around, buying everyone drinks and lapdances but he did also seem to be a bit skint at times like he couldn't handle his money, wanted staking for $5 games after winning £30k and often borrowed money off others in the group making excuses like nigerians had emptied his bank account.  He said he was a top pro punter but he wore the same shirt for two years, drove a cheap old fiesta, had an IVA for not being able to pay his credit cards and also signed on the dole for his giro and rent money.  Anyway, we all got together and gave him about £80k as he said he would gamble it for us and turn it into £160k but do you know what, he didn't!  We didn't sign anything like specific terms or anything, we just thought he could double our money gambling because he said so, but we reckon he lost some and spent some and might even still have some - can you arrest him please officer?"

"Of course sir, right away, this sounds like a particularly vicious, cold and calculating crime of gambling with your money like you wanted him to (even though you knew he was a wrongun) so you could make a quick buck out of someone else, but not quite in the way you wanted him to.  He'll get years for that sir, years of enjoyment from it.  In fact sir I'll go arrest him right this moment, now if only you could lend me a grand for the taxi fare please sir..."

"Excellent officer, would you like cash or shall I ship it to you via stars, some of my friends could pay for you to take some extra people with you if you'd like, we're like that."

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.

If it were me I would follow these courses of action. I would give it to social services, I would give it to the IVA company and I would try to move on a little poorer and a little wiser knowing if I ever have spare cash again I will[/u] choose what I invest it on.

I would too as I would want to make life as uncomfortable as possible for him in the absence of criminal action or the likelihood of getting any money back, a visit to the civil law courts might be a nugatory financial exercise but it would bother him and cost him.

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.

Have the police been informed?

"Officer, I've been the victim of theft, fraud and deception, somebody has stolen my money"

"Deary me sir, how did that happen"

"Well there's this group of us, a few dozen and we all like a bit of a gamble and some of us knew this bloke who also liked a gamble but worse than us, he was a mad gambler and chucked fifty pound notes around, buying everyone drinks and lapdances but he did also seem to be a bit skint at times like he couldn't handle his money, wanted staking for $5 games after winning £30k and often borrowed money off others in the group making excuses like nigerians had emptied his bank account.  He said he was a top pro punter but he wore the same shirt for two years, drove a cheap old fiesta, had an IVA for not being able to pay his credit cards and also signed on the dole for his giro and rent money.  Anyway, we all got together and gave him about £80k as he said he would gamble it for us and turn it into £160k but do you know what, he didn't!  We didn't sign anything like specific terms or anything, we just thought he could double our money gambling because he said so, but we reckon he lost some and spent some and might even still have some - can you arrest him please officer?"

"No sir, have you considered calling GamCare or the samaritans for advice, you might even want to club together some more and take him to a civil law court as this is clearly a civil matter between friends and people who don't really know each other who have now fell out, but that will cost you many thousands in solictors fees and you will lose annonymity doing that and you will be laughed at and pointed at in the civil law court by anyone watching as you're gradually picked to pieces by someone pointing out all the facts you knew collectively but chose to ignore behind the prospect of making some quick money by gambling."

"Bugger"

It worked for him because everyone is too nice here and crucially, not aware of the subject matter - he'd not have lasted five minutes on the betfair forum with this scam and none of them would last five minutes trying to scam poker stakes here - know your audience.  The unhelpful lesson is trust is not enough, if you don't know the subject find out before you put in.

He is not likely to do as you say and you cannot believe what he does say.

Put yourself in his position except you can't as you do not know if he has assets, owns his property, has an income that can pay his bills or others that can or even if he still has some/a lot of money.  Human nature would make his top two priorities damage limitation with family and friends and stalling for buying time.

It takes time to move and if you can stall people for a while by convincing them you're waiting for cash to materialise and then drip feed some small payments with what you have to buy some faith and more time, you would.  If he's completely potless you're flogging a dead horse, even in a civil court.

Good luck.

'advice I have received is that I needed confirmation'

translate to "I really need to stall you guys for a bit, time cures everything you know"

He was reading this thread a bit ago

He needs to know what you are doing/thinking of doing as this will directly influence what he does/says.

There is no reason he cant pay back some money and still be prosecuted....just gets a lesser sentence.

Except he cannot be prosecuted for a civil matter which he will only have to defend in a court of law if people pay to take him to a civil law court.

No, a cheque would be safe if unlikely judged by his ability to lie to his family, friends, iva administrator and scam you all.  That you believe anything from him after this is staggering if not a tad understandable given emotions.

He can do nothing with a zero bank account other than use it in illegal activity with your name against it which could cause you some future headaches and it will never be safe for you to use again as an active account.

Reporting him to his iva administrator would upset them both considerably I would imagine but you could only file that under vindictive revenge.

Anybody thinking of giving their bank details to a confirmed fraudster, if that is what he is, needs urgent independent financial advice.

+1 this shows the kind of feelings generated by this guy

This is how scammers work and that's how victims get hit again and again once the hooks are in, emotions over-rule judgement.  

You're emotional but so is he now, he's been insulted, blackballed and had a facebook page set up against him with attempts at completely ruining his reputation to his friends and family. You may think this legitimate but he may take this as cause to inflict more damage, giving your bank details gives him the means to do this.
 
 
 

I can understand the high emotions but page 109 includes disputed claims of nigerians emptying his bank account and him asking you for your bank details and you asking if this is safe!

http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1129