You should have one of those signs saying "No Open Limps Since 1095 days".

Im seeing this a lot on the tables I'm playing though, and I'm struggling to ascertain what it means.  So far I'm thinking 'weak', but not much else so that's why I ask.

Well done btw, for staying on the wagon for so long.

Hello the lot of you!

Right, limp-calling.  I feel this is pretty weak, but it seems everyone at micro limit does this.  First question is...

1) Limping - a weak way to play no?  We all know this - especially in late positions.  Usually you would attribute one face card, possibly suited, or some kind of connecting hand...however....

2) Limp-Calling - ...is it still feasible to attribute these kinds of hands to a player making a limp-call move?

To me, there are three levels to their play : Limping, Limp-Calling, Raising.  Raising is easy to digest because it doesn't happen too much so you can narrow their range down to premium hands.  Limping is harder, and depending on the player, they could be limping only their premiums if super-tight, or (more likely) the faces and connectors.

So where does that leave limp-calling?  Are they really hands that aren't strong enough to re-raise with yet too good to fold (Broadways, small pairs, high-mid suited connectors)?  Are these the same hands that they would limp in with?

What is the passive players mentality behind limp-calling?  Will they limp in with anything with post flop value (we should probably invent a new term for this - something like 'angling'), and then call any raise and treat it as an expensive limp?  Or is this line simply their three-bet play and indicates strength?

So far, I'm of the impression that anything they will limp with they will call with so I should tread carefully and expect either to be WAWB or facing a solid draw from their marginal holdings.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

You don't really need to try and remember their vpip and pfr though

I think part of the trouble is that you have to remember whether someone has 'entered once in the last ten hands?  Or was it 20?  Oh, did they raise, like, 4 of those times?  I can't remember if it was early or mid position...ahh I've been put all in....' Like 8 times.  I suppose these are what I take notes for, but it sometimes seems like I'm akin to working as a data recorder in court, by which time I've missed a load of action.

I like the route of marrying hands up first rather than trying to make a manual VPIP calc on the fly, so will look at that.  I suppose that experience will give me the same knowledge as you would when PokerStoving a 30/15 player and comparing them to a 40/20 player.  They are subtle differences, but then that would be the nature of a 'natural' read.

I do feel like I'm being rushed, and this is my money after all (even though it's not too much of it).  I think I might do my table recording thing and see how that goes.

Thanks for the replies so far, keep 'em coming!

Cheers redarmi.  I forgot to mention that I use PokerStove (actually I've just bought Slice as it is compatible with my Mac).  I'm finding without a HUD though that I'm struggling to clock the VPIP PFR etc while trying to concentrate on everything else, and with the HUD I'm playing too mechanically and looking only at the figures.  Plus, as I said, I would rather learn without aids like this in order to get the skills down pat.

I'm always watching and trying to grab notes - it just seems like my deductive reasoning isn't as quick as the game itself, making me feel about 75 and 'special'.  I was thinking about recording a random table not involving me and leaving the Mac for an hour or so then going through each hand in my own time where I can stop and start at will.  But I don't know if this would help reduce the time it takes me to read the board etc.

As for your second point, I understand where you're coming from.  I will look to stick to NL for now, so I suppose it's just the speed issue I'm getting stuck with.  It's a bit frustrating as I know that as soon as I clock this, then it will really open my game up - but right now this is the hardest thing I have had to look at.  I do wonder whether I have gotten too far ahead of myself, but I think that's just me being a bit passive.

Hello!

This is my first post here after gravitating from a PokerStars only forum, and I hope you can help!

I've been playing almost a year, and I feel I've got a handle on certain concepts and fundamentals.  I am constantly reading and trying to learn and improve, yet find it tough to incorporate these concepts into my game sometimes.  Lately I have had another of these situations.

I realise that I need to begin ranging my opponents, and have read a lot of articles on the subject.  However, I'm really struggling to get a handle on it.  I've narrowed it down to two sticking points, and any help would be appreciated.

First of all, it appears that the action runs too quickly to be able to digest everything that has happened and run through the possible outcomes.  This makes me sounds really weak I know, and it frustrates me because Im not exactly slow witted.  By the time I've digested whats happened pre-flop, it's already the turn.  Then everyone mucks their cards and I'm none the wiser.  There's an article on hand reading in the March 2011 edition of WPT Poker, but after going through the example scenario I got the answer completely wrong.  After reading the explanation, it made perfect sense and it was very clear - this is a common problem with some of the harder concepts I try to incorporate.

Secondly, Im struggling with what game to play that gives me a good chance to learn ranging and reading.  My thought process is that No Limit isn't going to show me enough showdowns (or hands), and heads up will show me too many and be too loose to be useful in beginning learning.  I have an idea of playing Fixed Limit as a good middle ground, but is this the right thought to have?  I'm actually thinking that I may play Fixed Limit exclusively as a learning ground.  If it was good enough for everyone for 50 years to come up through, then surely it's good enough for me?

As an aside, I can only play $2NL and .5/.10 FL with my bankroll atm.  I also have Poker Tracker, but Im not going to play with the HUD as it's probably a good idea to get the fundamentals down without the stats (Im looking to play live in the future), and I'm only playing one table while Im learning anyway.

I hope this is not too TL; DR, and thanks for any advice in advance.

Cheers
Tom