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1  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Rob Yong and DTD..Your views on: September 19, 2013, 02:17:50 PM
Ok, a few quick caveats to my post,
First, I'm a professional Poker Journalist, and I've been playing poker for longer than I care to remember. Second, I've used a HuD ever since I took online poker even remotely seriously.

HuDs are a valuable tool for every player, regardless of how seriously they take poker, but they do not impact individual hands, or the outcome of those hands in any significant way. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but I'll try to explain.
All of the information a HuD collects while you play is information that is available to you already. A player at a live cash game will already have a very good idea about who is raising pots, and who is open limping. You get to know the table as you play, and you may play against the same players week in and week out, so you should have a better understanding of their game. That's what the HuD does online, it captures that information. Where a HuD really comes into it's own is to allow a player to sit at more tables, and not be at a serious disadvantage against the player who is sitting at only one. If anyone here has ever tried to multitable without a HuD, you know what I'm talking about, it's close to impossible to do it and stay as a winning player (some people I know can do it with 4 tables, but they are freaks).
People have been talking about sample sizes, and they are right to do so. For the length of most recreational players sessions, they are going to play maybe 1-200 hands at a single table tops. From that, you can only really take into consideration PFR (Pre Flop Raise) VPiP (Voluntary Put in Pot) and maybe 3 bet %. Any half decent player is going to have that information for a table playing the same amount of hands live. Given the size of most online player pools, you may never see most of these players again at your table, especially if you are only playing 1 at a time. HuDs have a very limited impact on any single hand.
Where a HuD really comes into it's own is away from the table. When you review your game (and any good grinder is going to spend a lot of time analysing their game) the statistics from a HuD can show you where you are losing money. Do you 3 bet light too often? Do you call out of position in three bet pots too often? Are you folding too often to aggressive players? This tool can really help analyse a players game, and the only information it uses is freely available Hand Histories.

The only thing a banning of HuDs would really cause is a drop in volume for players, and grinders having to play at a higher level to make rent. Volume is where the money is in this game, for both the player, and the operator. This actually hurts recreational players. It's going to be really hard to find a $0.01/$0.02 game on some sites, because all of the Russian multi table grinders are gone. The backbone of the online market is still the grinder, they hold open the games. the flesh however is the recreational players, who attach to that backbone.

Players who don't understand HuDs are understandably scared of them, but they really aren't the bad part of online poker. Collusion, poor operators, and unsustainable rake are all much more important, but because they aren't discusser out in the open, they get a lot less press.

There are issues with the market, but HuDs are not part of the problem.

+1
2  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Rob Yong and DTD..Your views on: September 19, 2013, 02:04:18 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a HUD will show you an opponents mucked cards.

This is a definite edge for me, knowing what a guy has called you down with gives you a massive indication of how good they are and what their style is.

If you were at the table, with or without a HUD you can see what your opponent call/mucked with by looking at the hand history, it's usually in the top left hand of the table and its very obviously marked so it's defo not a sharky trick that only the regs know.

I know this now .... but had no idea before I used a HUD.

Most of my friends play poker and are good rec players. None of them knew that.

It's also very difficult to check after every single hand ....
3  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Rob Yong and DTD..Your views on: September 19, 2013, 01:50:31 PM
HUD's and tracking software are two very different things.

Re:HUD's

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a HUD will show you an opponents mucked cards.

This is a definite edge for me, knowing what a guy has called you down with gives you a massive indication of how good they are and what their style is.

Regarding other stats, VPIP, %3bet, %cbet, etc .... I don't feel this gives me any sort of an edge that a 1 tabling rec can get from simply watching the action at their table.

Re: Tracking Software

Tracking software is an invaluable tool for anyone trying to improve their game, I play 6 max PLO cash and was a losing player for at least the first 9 months.  Reviewing hands, learning %'s in different situations, working out where I was losing money would have been a lot harder without access to the information Holdem manager provides.
4  Poker Forums / Poker Hand Analysis / Re: Best River Line? on: October 25, 2012, 01:54:33 PM
So much of this depends on the dynamic between hero and villain.

I'd have recommended bet/bet/bet if you have been active and let a Q station you.

As played I check call the river.  Pretty sure he bets a Q for value and it also gives him enough rope to have a stab without.
5  Poker Forums / Poker Hand Analysis / Re: GUKPT Luton Main - Final two tables on: October 25, 2012, 01:28:25 PM
Thanks for the thoughts so far.

I was actually the villain in this hand and held  (I posted like this as I had an opinion on what I would do, but was interested to see everyone's thoughts with the info given).

With regard to the hand, I was pretty sure I was up against top pair and the click back to 100,000 was a mis-step from my opponent, this opened the door for my all in and I felt I would get a fold.

My hand was repped as either big draw where he is in front (65%) or a hand that had him crushed (set or two pair from the bb). Even with a draw I felt it was a big risk for him at this stage in the tournament given he could fold and still be well above average.  Hands he is dominating I play differently, given how deep we are I flat weaker Kings and re-assess if he fires three streets.

If he flats the CR as suggested (I think this is the optimal play for him) I have to give up.

Cliffs: He tanks for a good 5 mins before making the call. I have 8 outs twice and don't improve, he takes a monster chip lead to the FT. I'm left with 4bb. Sigh.

I'm a little surprised how many of you thought this was a call, I think I would probably have found a fold, not 100% decided on what is right and wrong.

I think I'm quite happy with the way I played the hand, the only real question I've been asking myself is if I needed to get involved like this at this stage.
6  Poker Forums / Poker Hand Analysis / GUKPT Luton Main - Final two tables on: October 23, 2012, 02:50:04 PM
GUKPT Main

£1000 buy in

155 runners, 12 remain, 15 paid

Prize Structure:
1st   £45,760
2nd   £32,160
3rd   £20,150
4th   £12,400
5th   £9,690
6th   £7,360
7th   £5,810
8th   £4,260
9th   £3,100
10th   £2,710
11th   £2,320
12th   £2,320
13th   £2,320
14th   £2,320
15th   £2,320

blinds 3000-6000/600

Hero stack 380,000 (3rd overall)

Opponent stack 400,000 (2nd overall)

Average is 210,000

Hero is seen as solid, TAG regular.

Opponent is relatively solid, aggressive but never shown down when he hasn't got it, young but not very, late twenties/early thirties, married, not a hoodie.

Hero is the cut off and raises to 15,000 with   

Opponent in the big blind flat calls


flop     three diamonds

Opponent checks

Hero bets 20,000

Opponent check raises to 60,000

Hero re-rasies to 100,000

Opponent jams and has me covered.


What would you do?
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