Mango, you can come to my Home Game any time you want......Bring plenty of money, eh?

Hey Tony, after watching you in the Omaha side game on Weds night at DTD, can I come please, pretty please lol

It is people's inability to lay down AA KK QQ that causes questions to arise in how the hand played out

Could not agree with you more on that one mate.

Peeps,

I like to look at the poker hand analasis sub forum, reading what people say, opinions, etc. ITs very interesting.

But to be honest, 99% of the questions are all based on premium hands pre-flop, like a big ace or large pocket pair.

Has the new breed of player evolved into just premium hand raising/calling robots or is it me ? No matter where you go, or who you play against most players especially in the mid/late final stages of tournaments just sit for hours waiting for an ace or a premium hand.

To me, the skill factor in poker ( more related to no-limit hold 'em ) has diminished a little, all they seem to do is sit and wait ( which is fine of thats how you want to play )

I must be one of the old school who calls and raises with rags like playing ace jack suited.

tbh, just calling with ace nine of diamonds, what are you hoping to flop ? maybe four to the nut flush, trip nines or aces up ?

Its one of those three hands, so with that board you push if you call a raise with ace nine.

Its not just about what he wants to flop though, on a board like this when c/r by an utg raiser you have to think past what you innitially wanted to flop.

Fair comment mate, but more to the point of why call in the first place if your not going to call or push when flopping aces up.

Just my opinion, but you have to put yourself in a position to win, and flopping aces up is very strong short handed and you'd be unlucky to have ran into a set or aces up with the king.

Personally, id rather call in position with rags than ace nine, for one its easier to get away from in the situation of that particular hand.

Like all calls of this nature its very hard to make what you think is the correct play sat at a computer screen.

If it was live play ( and im assuming its not ) your decision becomes easier to make.

tbh, just calling with ace nine of diamonds, what are you hoping to flop ? maybe four to the nut flush, trip nines or aces up ?

Its one of those three hands, so with that board you push if you call a raise with ace nine.

[I'm wildly inexperienced live]

Thanks for the response, guys. Told me pretty much what I expected to hear and in a fantastically logical and well explained fashion.

The initial call was pretty needless. I'm wildly inexperienced live, and experience with hands like this is all good learning. I was very pleased to have built up a decent chipstack early (this was the APAT event), and that's one positive I can take away.

To be fair, the guy might have realised that and could have been waiting to get you in a hand.

Oh shoot, do I owe 50p to the forum for sharing a bad-beat story ?

I posted one a couple of weeks ago ?

Good Man and 

I was recently playing a side game at Gala in Leeds, the blinds were £1/£2, I was on the button holding AA. There was one good player on the table ( 10 people ) and all the rest were fish imho.

I raised it to £20 and got 4 callers. Immediately I knew the aces were probably useless unless I flopped a set, so basically I played the hand ( minus the £20 bet ) as if I was holding a small to medium pocket pair.

The flop came 5 hearts, 6 hearts and 9 clubs. Player 1 bets out £30, player 2 Raises another £30 and player 3 smooth calls.

I mucked the aces without batting an eyelid and went for a ciggie.


With how you described the two loose players, sounds like there fish to be honest, in a 10/20 side game, internet also I assume, you might as well raise 25 times the bb and possibly more with QQ KK AA. Because if you cant see yourself laying queens or kings or aces down when its a rag flop with several callers, you have to ask yourself if side-games are for you to be perfectly honest. You didnt do anything wrong in the hand really, just someone got luckier than you, you got dealt 2 queens, and he flopped 2 pair. It evens itself out usually, even when the odds are calculated.

He got lucky just like you did.

Personally, I would make the call with a hand like 6 7 following a raise from a "rock" as you described yourself ( nothing wrong being a rock btw, I wish I could be one sometimes ) as I know if I catch a flop i'll double through you, and if you think about it, 2 quid isnt much to call in low-stakes games is it, not for a smart player or a reckless fish ?

Ive been playing 7 years, and since 2004 the poker world has exploded, its basically hatched, imho bad player after bad player, who all think there good because they got lucky and won a tournament/s or got paid for slow playing a set.

I have brought a young lad on over the past 6 months, and the first thing I made quite clear to him was that poker isnt, and never will be about playing ace-king.

To be fair, when he re-raised to £172, after your raise of £56 ( which was good ) and then you went all in, that was a bad move imho.

Your moving over the top of him with 7 high, after he's raised your amount over three times you must have known he had a hand.

Even if you were sure he didnt, and you thought all he was doing was making a play at you, you still cant push with 7 high, there was no way he was putting £172 out there and not protecting it.

IMHO, internet poker is all too easy to click a mouse button when the adrenelin is pumping.

Better luck next time dude

Alex I agree with your reply 100%.

Senior, if you have that gung-ho attitude your trying to fight a losing battle dude, in a tournament, you'd only loose your chips and what ever the buy-in was.

However, play side games like that and experienced players will pick-up on your style of play, and if they put you on a big pair such as aces, your raises will be called, probably on rags and you will loose all your money, as you cant lay the aces down if your opponent catches some cards.

I will call 10% of my stack regardless of bankroll when its heads up or possibly in position against " tournament style " players in side games on a hand like 6 4, 5 3, 7 5, 8 6 etc etc when I put them on a big pair or even a big ace pre-flop, if I catch a flop I know for sure 9 times out of 10 i'll double through them, definately if there holding queens, kings and especially aces.

The beauty of calling with rags too, if a rag flop comes, the initiall raiser ( if your heads up with him ) will think he's smart and he'll check the flop to try and check raise you, if your there already you get paid, if your almost there, you can see 4th street for free, if you make your hand you double through him.

If a flop shows paint or an ace, its an easy fold, and you've only lost 10% of your stack. I can live with that as the gains you make when the cards are good makes it irresistable for me to call.

lol, tbh this is one of the reasons why im very poor in tournaments, I cant sit and wait for cards.

Personally in that stage of the tournament, I would have raised him 6 times the initial raise, possibly more.

What this acheives is according to the other chip counts the other players would have to have a monster hand to call you, and your hoping someone has kings, queens, jacks or possibly ace king. Alot of fish will push with ace king regardless of position anyway.

How many times do you get aces and get paid ? The only time you do is against a loose fish who happens to have a big hand such as ace ten, ace queen, ace king or anything above pocket 9's, that 9 times out of ten they'll shove with them. Or an unlucky player regardless of ability.knowledge who happens to be sitting on a monster.

In my honest opinion, aces are only good for stealing the blinds or losing monster pots in the early and medium/late stages of a tournament anyway.

The flop was horrible to be honest and its great play if you actually thought whilst playing that you could possibly be beaten or drawing dead already when the flop came. Most players I see nowdays, regardless of what comes on the flop will push all-in with aces as they seem to think its impossible to loose with them, and when they do, they dont shut up about it, telling everyone who cares to listen to the dribble.

Would I call, I really dont know. In live play, you have the advantage of your eyes and gut intinct, this is how id make the decision after id done the math. So unless I was there, I would'nt be able to say what I would do in this particular hand.

If the hand was on-line, its an easy fold for me.

Yawn, not worth the keyboard time.

[real]

Didn't think you'd reply.

Let me guess, late teens very early twenties judging by your style of play and attitude ? Internet player mainly, maybe played live a few times, and judging by your arrogance you may have a decent tournament win in live play ?

Mate, you can stick to playing internet MTT's all you want, but if you want to play real poker, then live side games is the game to play.

Your attitude is appalling, people have a difference in opinion and you jump all over them.

I hope that when your chips are in the middle you get beat.

Prat.

[relatively low-stakes side game like the one you were playing in]

Hi mate,

Chances are in a relatively low-stakes side game like the one you were playing in, your two tens could have been beaten on the flop with the 2 9 3 flop anyway, as someone could have out flopped you by hitting 2 pair, and when 4th street showed another duece its very probable that your beaten, either by the duece or a higher pair than your tens, or its possible they could have 2's 3's or 9's pre-flop. Your always getting 8 -1 to hit the set with any pocket pair pre-flop anyway.

You would have to ask your self what you could possibly be beating, someone could easily be infront, and you've only 2 cards in the deck that you could hit to win the hand.

Obviously not in the hand you've shown, if you won it, but playing in a side game ( especially on the internet ) against a loose player your tens could be losing sometimes, taking into consideration how the hand was played and what came out on the flop and 4th street.

R7

LMAO AT ALL OF THIS POST, ESP THE BOLDED, THIS JAS TO BE A WIND UP

Ok sorry for posting dude, not everyone plays " text-book " poker, especially on the internet. Imho, sometimes players will not lay a hand down, even when mathmatically there not getting the odds. He could have been drawing to the flush, hit two pair, a set, top pair with top kicker, a higher pair than you, he could have had anything, but when he put you all in you had to think that its highly likely your tens were busted.

Imho, you played the hand tournament stlye, and if you lost you deserved it.

Let me ask you a question, if the pot was for thousands rather than a few hundered dollars, would you have called ? ( hard to answer as you know the outcome of the hand )