Did me out of £25 a few months back, sent me an email asking me to come back and place a £25 bet and they would give me same value free bet,followed all the steps asked, after complaining still no £25 free bet they gave me an excuse why i didnt qualify,proved that was wrong and so they gave me another excuse, 3 or 4 different excuses,lost my temper and told them where to go. cheeky gits still sent me promotions ,phone calls and emails never had any effect, i rate them the worst bookmaker in the country.never again.

i hope they really go after these people and set an example.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8419948.stm

I have understood what you mean from the begining Typhoon i am also going over the same ground,
one important fact which seems to be overlooked is your total stake
backing ew compared to win.its double the stake.double the risk,10 x £100 ew is £2000 staked ,
compared to 10 x£100 win bets £1000 staked,
example , say you get 7 winners 3 unplaced, out of 10
7 winners at  £100 ew 5/2 ew returns 7 x £500= £3500 for a total stake of £2000, profit is £1500
7 winners at  £100 win at 5/2 returns  7x £350 =£2450 for a total stake of £1000 profit is  £1450 ,
you have risked £1000 to win £50,
it doesn't matter if the horses win or place you still have to get 7 horses placed out of 10 to show a 5% profit. to justify doubling your
stake by backing EW. at 5/2 or less ,
 8 out of 10 horses placed is a fantastic strike rate,risk an extra £1000 by backing ew ,profit £200. thats what puts me off.
 now if you can get 1/4 odds like years ago it might work out ok.

I understand and respect what you say Typhoon, i have never argued Camel or anyone else will not make a profit from backing EW at short prices of 5/2 or less, the difference of opinion is over will you win more or loose more if you where to back the same horses to win.
there are a few ways at looking at the maths ,it is not results orientated it is maths,i just cant see how having to get a min of 70% of your selections placed before you show a profit of only 5%. is a good bet, now if the opinion is its insurance and cuts variance, this may be true but still not convinced.if i am wrong fair enough i would love to find a safer way of gambling on horses at short prices.

yeah i understand about picking certain races ,fav 1/2 and your selection looks certain to win or at least be placed,no doubt about it,looks a great bet but i would stilll like to work out if returns are bigger when you do occasionally have an ew bet on short prices over a long period of time rather than just a one off bet.

but the way you want to look at it is results orientated. you'll find out if you would've made more money but it won't tell you if it was a good bet

not really its the maths which stops me from backing short prices ew,Camel gave a brilliant way of looking at the maths from a different angle.checking the results over a long period is the only way to prove which is the best bet for that punter. If someone else is making a profit good on them,we all have different ways of gambling ,not saying i am right or wrong but worth looking into a bit more,

yeah i understand about picking certain races ,fav 1/2 and your selection looks certain to win or at least be placed,no doubt about it,looks a great bet but i would stilll like to work out if returns are bigger when you do occasionally have an ew bet on short prices over a long period of time rather than just a one off bet.

Not sure what you mean when you say the "the same horses" though.

If you could check the the result of every horse you have backed ew at 5/2, work out how much you have staked and returns from bets,
work out how much you would of staked and returns from just backing the same horses to win, it would show if it was correct to have backed all the horses ew or just to win.

I understand what you mean about value Camel, it does depend how you look at this Mathematically,
at the end of the day 7 out of 10 winning selections at 5/2 ew risking £1000 to win £50 doesn't look a decent bet to me,
10 out of 10 winning selections wins £500 risking £1000, but that's what gamblings all about, different opinions,

I'm not sure what you mean.

If you don't like risking too much, lay the win portion of the bet on betfair and just have a huge value bet.

its not the stakes. its wheather it shows a bigger profit over a lot of bets compared to just backing the same horses to win.

I understand what you mean about value Camel, it does depend how you look at this Mathematically,
at the end of the day 7 out of 10 winning selections at 5/2 ew risking £1000 to win £50 doesn't look a decent bet to me,
10 out of 10 winning selections wins £500 risking £1000, but that's what gamblings all about, different opinions,

f you can only see two horses getting involved and your horse is a 5-2 shot (and say the other one is the favourite of odds lower than 6-4) you can bet £100 EW on your 5-2 shot. This way you know that, in your worst case scenario, you only lose £50 but stand to gain £300 if your horse wins (£250 win and £50 for the place). In your mind (And this is important..it is only in your mind) you are therefore risking £50 to win £300. This gives you odds of 6-1.

yeah i can see why some punters like the bet, i wonder if any people who have been betting like this kept any records, how much they have staked and won or lost betting ew on say 100 horses at short prices, then work out how much they would of won or lost just betting to win on the same horses,

would of liked to have read the discussion Boldie, i imagine a few punters may view the ew  bet as insurance but they are 2 seperate bets and extra risk
i sometimes have a win bet and make the place only bet on betfair a lot bigger.

Ive heard a lot of serious backers like to back ew at short odds, i
have never been able to see how this works in your favour
mathematically,

if you have 10.x £100 ew bets ,the win part of the bet is separate,
you are gambling £1000. separately on place bets
if every horse you back is 5/2.placed odds 1/5th. every race you either
pick up £150.when a selection is placed or loose £100

if 6 out of 10 of your selections are placed you have picked up £900,
cost of bets £1000.so you loose £100
to show a profit of £50 risking £1000 you have to have 7 out of 10
selections placed,7x£150.
7 out of 10 selections winning is a excellent strike rate yet the
profit for this is £50.,
maybe i am looking at this wrong but as i say i cant understand how
this is a good bet mathermatically.

radio,dont know how good the coverage will be.

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/live/

very sad to hear this news, never had a bet on him but followed every race and shouted him on.

RIP.

Does anyone know Gerrards fixers phone number ,thers nothing down for me when all the rest of the Liverpool supporters find out ive got the Sky full package. what is  Bagel anyway ,dosent it look something like a doughnut.