Mid-Pair preflop with small stack vs CL and short stack

[moritzey]

What would you do in this situation:

12 left, 4 get paid
I have 1,000 chips, Short-Stack has 600, SB has 4,500
Blinds are getting painful at 100-200

Mid-Pair in the BB (say 77-TT)

Short-stack in MP raises 400 and is all-in (600)
SB calls for 500
BB does what? Push, call or fold?

I used to push in this situation, but now I'm thinking that it might be better to flat-call and then push/call all-in on any flop. My reasoning behind this is that if the SB has me beat on the flop, I would loose regardless of how I play preflop. The only two situations where call-pushing would be different to pushing immediately are (a) when I'm ahead on the flop, he folds and I would still be ahead by the river (in which case I make 1,800 instead of 2,600) and (b) when I'm ahead on the flop, he folds and I would have gotten outdrawn by the river (in which case I make 1,800 instead of being all-out).

If I push preflop, the SB simply cannot fold (400 for seeing 2,200) - however if I push on a flop that he missed, he might be more likely to fold, correct?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[doubleup]

Hmm I don't think I have ever been in this situation, I obviously stick my chips in too early.

I think the only problem with the strategy is that the big stack might fold an underpair when you bet a king high flop.  I think he always calls with overcards. 

In your example the money is so far away anyway that it doesn't make lot of difference.  If you were on the bubble then simply checking all the way might be best.

[boldie]

What would you do in this situation:

12 left, 4 get paid
I have 1,000 chips, Short-Stack has 600, SB has 4,500
Blinds are getting painful at 100-200

Mid-Pair in the BB (say 77-TT)

Short-stack in MP raises 400 and is all-in (600)
SB calls for 500
BB does what? Push, call or fold?

I used to push in this situation, but now I'm thinking that it might be better to flat-call and then push/call all-in on any flop. My reasoning behind this is that if the SB has me beat on the flop, I would loose regardless of how I play preflop. The only two situations where call-pushing would be different to pushing immediately are (a) when I'm ahead on the flop, he folds and I would still be ahead by the river (in which case I make 1,800 instead of 2,600) and (b) when I'm ahead on the flop, he folds and I would have gotten outdrawn by the river (in which case I make 1,800 instead of being all-out).

If I push preflop, the SB simply cannot fold (400 for seeing 2,200) - however if I push on a flop that he missed, he might be more likely to fold, correct?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

yes I'm with you on this one.

The only reason people push here is because they might not push once the flop comes down. if you have decided that no matter what you are going to push..then you can wait untill the flop comes down and hope SB missed it.

I don't like to be up against two other players with a hand like that but you are desperately shortstacked so can only do two things...Fold and push with rubbish later on (you will ussually get a caller if you only have 5x the BB) or get all of them in the middle on this hand. what you can NOT do is flat call and fold.

[SupaMonkey]

I push pre as long as i don't think the SB is trying to get me into the pot because he has a big pair. If you push on the flop you will only be called when you are beaten (the SB knows it's not bluff because you will have a dry side pot). If you push preflop then you could either take the whole pot or you could lose to the shortie and still win the side pot.

You forgot the case when you push on the flop, the SB folds and the shortie already has you beaten.

[temp0r]

that far off the money with 5 x the BB in the SB next hand. you ALWAYS push here. no question.