Raising from the bb

[brummieboy]

Coming unstuck the last few tournies in the middle stages with half decent hands in the bb.

For example blinds are 400/800 and I find myself in the bb with either KQs or A10 there's two limpers and the sb calls.

How often do you raise in this situation? If it's limped round to me I'd presume i've got the best hand and used to raise to limit the field and then probably lead out on the flop regardless. However can loose a wedge here if reraised.


Second question. What does overbetting the pot by double mean to you. I've noticed on Full Tilt and some other sites this has been happening quite a bit.

I'm in the bb with  2 limpers and sb call.  I decide to ckeck with  and see what the flop brings.
 Flop is  . Small blind checks, I suspect i'm ahead but checked with the idea of check raising.
Pot is 2400 and it's checked around to the button who then bets 4800

What would you do? What do you suspect he has? I have 12k left he has 7k left.
I'll let you know what he had in a bit. In general what does doubling the pot mean to you?

[boldie]

ok several questions you asked there..just my thoughts here..

The rule of 4; (I was told this ages ago and love this) out of 4 people one is bound to call you when you raise. So narrowing the field yeah but you don't know if you have the best hand. It would depend on chipstacks and position of the others before you could hazard a guess to that when you hold KQ (some people limp in early position with AQ). KQ is still a marginal hand.

Raising the flop regardless you can do when you seem to be defending a blind to a raise pre-flop. IOW One person raises it everyone folds and you call..signalling that your blind isn't free.
Then if the flop comes low he'll believe you hit it and were protecting your big blind. That would make him inclined to fold his overcards. Check raising here is also good. Leading out when you missed it completely..ussually a bad idea IMO especially against limpers as you have no idea what they have but can be done if the flop comes low.

The guy on the button who double potted, well he's either hit something and is protecting it after everyone checked it to him or he's missed it and is bluffing at it.

He is saying "You won't push me out of this pot and to find out whether I have anything here you'll risk your entire tourney as you would have to re-raise me all in and I'll hurt you if I'm ahead".
I quite like that play.
I ussually would take players like that as having drawing hands (in this case JQ) or the ten...maybe a weaker King.

I'd push BTW

[Smart Money]

Speaking from a cash table perspective, if you never raise from the BB with these holdings against 3 other players then you're not doing too much wrong. Against 3 or more limpers, I'd generally only raise from the BB with Big Pairs, AK and sometimes AQ.

[SupaMonkey]

Against late position limpers i will raise with pisch in the bb because there is a large chance i will take the pot. Against an early position limper i would just check here (unless they are a serial limper who would fold to a raise). When you raise you need to make it 5-6*BB to try and take the pot down.

[Horneris]

Id push with the KQ. Not sure what he has though! But i guess its not trips with that bet!, although iv seen it before. And youd like to think he hadnt limped with K 10, its just unlucky if he has. But again, unlikely hed bet like this if he had!. Definite push.

I'd just check with the KQ os in the BB. Id have also check raised. Good Play.

[brummieboy]

The player in question had been playing sensibly , but within the last 4 or 5 hands he had lost two big pots on the river.
With this play I had to think he was trying to take the pot down there and then and probably had a K or 10 with a poor kicker.
I therefore reraised him all-in and he called instantly and had bottom two pair.

I lost the pot and was down to a few k, just thought it was a bizarre move, but one that can obviously work.

[AlexMartin]

The bizarre part is that he calls on the button with 10,3. Your play is fine i think. Most of the time against weak opposition an overbet means a drawing hand that they are overplaying (flush draws regularly) or a TP/ shit kicker scenario. Also overbets preflop tend to be hands that are v.tricky postflop, so JJ with good opponents and small pp's with weak opponents.

Sometimes good players overbet the pot to ensure draws arent getting the correct odds even if the pot gets multiway. Threatening someone's tournament life gets rid of them quicker. Hard to explain but ill give it a stab. You have AcKd  UTG +1. Stacks are 2000pts deep. You raise preflop to 200 with blinds at 25/50. You get 2 calls from loose players who you kow like to chase draws when getting close to the correct odds.

Flop comes As . Sometimes if the pot is already large enough to warrant taking down (ie here its 675), overbetting simply means that your chances to win have gone up enormously.

Contrast this with a pot sized bet. Say caller 1 had . If he calls thats fine. But now caller 2 with Js7s thinks he's getting a good price and calls too.

Pokerstove analysis means that in this case ur a 62% favourite against the 2 hands.

 Against the 1 hand (AJ) that would probably call an all-in bet, ur a whopping 98% favourite.

Overbetting simply means that drawing hands are getting nowhere near the correct price. This means that you are letting them make and awful mistake if they weant to play on.
By making a pot-sized bet you are allowing the second a caller a 3-1 shot with a flush draw that he SHOULD take.

[AlexMartin]

Coming unstuck the last few tournies in the middle stages with half decent hands in the bb.

For example blinds are 400/800 and I find myself in the bb with either KQs or A10 there's two limpers and the sb calls.

How often do you raise in this situation? If it's limped round to me I'd presume i've got the best hand and used to raise to limit the field and then probably lead out on the flop regardless. However can loose a wedge here if reraised.


Second question. What does overbetting the pot by double mean to you. I've noticed on Full Tilt and some other sites this has been happening quite a bit.

I'm in the bb with  2 limpers and sb call.  I decide to ckeck with  and see what the flop brings.
 Flop is  . Small blind checks, I suspect i'm ahead but checked with the idea of check raising.
Pot is 2400 and it's checked around to the button who then bets 4800

What would you do? What do you suspect he has? I have 12k left he has 7k left.
I'll let you know what he had in a bit. In general what does doubling the pot mean to you?

Depending on who the limpers are you should be really careful. Marginal hands like these are invariably in a world of hurt when they get called preflop.
Bear in mind that a lot of players limp with hands like AJ/AQ in early position later in a tournament, as the hand often isnt strong enough to open raise, but is too good to fold. My advice would be, try not to play big pots out of the blinds without premium hands. Dont lose a lot with marginal hands like KQ that look pretty, but really are weak.

[temp0r]

i'd bet the flop and be prepared to lay it down to a large raise. which he would have put in without a doubt. but you can't do anything about people limping with 10-3. you have to play KQ causciously so you were right to check in the BB. if you were going to raise you'd have to make it an all-in move. but the check-raise idea is abit too aggressive at this stage of a tournament for me. you still need to find out where you are in a 4-way pot.