Acting out of turn

[the-oneeye]

 sorry to be a pain people would just like some advice. I was watch the 2005/06 ept event at copenhagen last night when a guy allins out of turn, The guy to act before him had stated raise just as the guy acted out of turn, he was then allowed to place a minimum raise but they allowed the acter out of turn to carry on with his allin bet. Now i  was under the impression that the allin guy could only call the bet in this instance and not allin. Where do i stand so i can clarify this in my future tournies

[Raindogs]

I made this mistake playing live a few weeks ago (just 2 of us in the pot) and the ruling was that the player who acted out of turn (me) could only call any action and not raise in that betting round.  However, I have seen on the Hendon Mob "Tournament Director" series where the ruling was that action out of turn is binding and any player acting out of turn must complete the action.  I have also seen a variation on this where the out of turn player can pull back his bet if the action changes before it gets to him ie. if the played who was skipped re-raises.

The argument for making the bet stand seems to be to prevent angle shooters acting out of turn to gain an advantage.  By making the bet stand the player who should have acted first gets the chance to fold if he thinks his opponent is strong and call or raise if he has a strong hand himself.  Allowing the out of turn bettor to take back his bet if there is any action before him allows him to pull a stroke to put his opponent off and then fold if his opponent bets.

Personally I think the "Call Only" ruling is fairer on the skipped player as it allows him to take a free card or flat call if he chooses.  I am not sure if the ruling meant I HAD to call any bet (ie if my opponent went all in would I have been forced to call ?).  By forcing the all-in bet to stand regardless it puts the player who should have acted first at a big disadvantage unless he has a big hand.  Allowing the all-in player to fold to a bet is unfair IMO.

I got quite a bit of flak from my opponent who accused me of angle shooting.  He felt that I should have shown my cards when the hand was finished to show good faith (I went all in on the turn, he folded and I mucked without thinking as I always do).  In hindsight I should have shown as it created a lot of bad feeling at the table.

[CRIPPIN]

This happened to me in the EPT London 2006. Flop was KKx, I check, other guy in the pot checks, Turn is a Jack, Whilst I'm thinking he announces All In. Now this completely threw me and I had to get the dealer to rule, the result was that I could bet or check but the all in would stand either way.........I was more than happy as I was holding pocket Kings and he pocket jacks!!!!!!

[CrestOfaWave]

Yeah I watched that EPT final table last night whilst playing a HORSE event on the laptop. The guy who called all in really startled the player who had only declared raise. The initial raiser really had a nervous look to him and I bet the others smelt fear - he did go on a run after that when he got pocket aces and I think he finished 3rd. FT seem such a crap shoot and wild gambles are done by the chip leaders. Look at what Hansen did to Gobboboy at the Aussie Millions when he was 4.1 underdog chip stack wise when heads up (approx).