Can you ever make an argument for folding?

[MC]

Don't get me wrong, I pretty much snap called this bet, but not before the thought of folding crossed my mind, because I knew he had to have at least a pair of eights here, which I'm roughly a coinflip to.

Against a good player or an average player, there's obv no decision. However, this was a particularly mediocre player, who I had beaten down quite easily early on. If I'd limped with 22 or 33, and he'd shoved, I'd have folded. Simply cos I thought I could get my money in better than a coinflip, or ground him down as I had been doing.

Can I have ever folded this monster hand in these circumstances?

I'm not being results orientated, I promise!

(Heads Up STT)
***** Hand 1417688219 *****
25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - Tuesday, January 20, 2009 2:08:16 PM
Holdem (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: Atkinator- (2170.00)
Seat 2: gingerfred (830.00)
Atkinator- post SB 25.00
gingerfred post BB 50.00
** Deal **
Atkinator- [, ]
gingerfred [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
Atkinator- Call 50.00
gingerfred Check
*** Flop(Board): *** : [, , ]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
gingerfred All-in 780.00
Atkinator- Call 780.00
*** Turn(Board): *** : [, , , ]
*** River(Board): *** : [, , , , ]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 1660.00
Atkinator- [, ] Highest card king Win: 0.00
gingerfred [, ] Two pair jacks and eights Win: 1660.00

[Cf]

This was a particularly mediocre player, who I had beaten down quite easily early on. If I'd limped with 22 or 33, and he'd shoved, I'd have folded. Simply cos I thought I could get my money in better than a coinflip.

Are you referring to preflop here? If so, you could apply the same argument to calling this bet on the flop...

That being said however, this is a call all the time. It's a coinflip yes, but you have the chip lead, and you're getting the right pot odds to call.

[MC]

This was a particularly mediocre player, who I had beaten down quite easily early on. If I'd limped with 22 or 33, and he'd shoved, I'd have folded. Simply cos I thought I could get my money in better than a coinflip.

Are you referring to preflop here? If so, you could apply the same argument to calling this bet on the flop...

That's my point, lol

I'm actually a very slight favourite against his hand so I'll always have pot odds, but it's not like there's a ton of dead money.

[Cf]

This was a particularly mediocre player, who I had beaten down quite easily early on. If I'd limped with 22 or 33, and he'd shoved, I'd have folded. Simply cos I thought I could get my money in better than a coinflip.

Are you referring to preflop here? If so, you could apply the same argument to calling this bet on the flop...

That's my point, lol

I'm actually a very slight favourite against his hand so I'll always have pot odds, but it's not like there's a ton of dead money.
[/quote]

Well, that's assuming he's not just shoved into you with 2 pair or a set

Personally with the chip lead I take the flip. If you think you can outplay him you still have chips afterwards with which to do so, but there's a good chance you can win it here and now.

[MC]

Well, that's assuming he's not just shoved into you with 2 pair or a set

Personally with the chip lead I take the flip. If you think you can outplay him you still have chips afterwards with which to do so, but there's a good chance you can win it here and now.

Yeah, or better flush draw...but specifically against the J8...

But yeah, that logic makes sense...

[AlexMartin]

no

[MC]

no

It's not really the hand I'm asking about...it's the concept...more insight would be appreciated than no!

[AlexMartin]

no

It's not really the hand I'm asking about...it's the concept...more insight would be appreciated than no!

in this specific hand, the reason for calling is that its 780 to win 880 and you have him 2:1 outchipped with a shot at the win. Given the tiny overlay thats a gamble you cannot refuse given how much equity you have versus any reasonable range. In other similar u+d str8flush draw hands, your opponent will sometimes show up with a completely dominated hand,  very occassionally you will have an effective freeroll.

 It theoretically could be a fold in the right situation, if opponent was terrible nit for example, you can fold here, as he will show up with dominating flushdraws sometimes.

[Horneris]

I've just read the title.

The answer is No.

[MC]

in this specific hand, the reason for calling is that its 780 to win 880 and you have him 2:1 outchipped with a shot at the win. Given the tiny overlay thats a gamble you cannot refuse given how much equity you have versus any reasonable range. In other similar u+d str8flush draw hands, your opponent will sometimes show up with a completely dominated hand,  very occassionally you will have an effective freeroll.

It theoretically could be a fold in the right situation, if opponent was terrible nit for example, you can fold here, as he will show up with dominating flushdraws sometimes.

Thanks man, that's exactly the analysis I was looking for. I'm not trying to find an excuse to fold, it's implausible to. But good to have some logic behind it...

Appreciate you taking the time to give that answer