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Author Topic: Grand National.  (Read 4478 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2011, 07:57:41 AM »

I've had too many good dogs break a leg while hare coursing, or smash into the barbed wire while lamping to defend my argument strongly Mr Bold. It would be hypocritical of me to do so. Never the less, the "most scrupulously run abattoir" analogy doesn't work. The animals that are slaughtered in said abattoirs are not seriously injured beforehand, nor are they left to thrash around, broken and bleeding until the bloke with the humane killer arrives.
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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2011, 08:23:20 AM »

I've had too many good dogs break a leg while hare coursing, or smash into the barbed wire while lamping to defend my argument strongly Mr Bold. It would be hypocritical of me to do so. Never the less, the "most scrupulously run abattoir" analogy doesn't work. The animals that are slaughtered in said abattoirs are not seriously injured beforehand, nor are they left to thrash around, broken and bleeding until the bloke with the humane killer arrives.

The abattoir comment mainly referred to seeing the animals in trouble on the course. The issue that most people seem to have with the National is not that they mind the horses dying. They mind seeing it on telly. It is incredibly painful to watch but I would argue that those who watch National Hunt racing all year round are likely to be much more upset by it than someone who just watches the National. Every year during the National Hunt season there are several bad falls in which horses are killed. Or horses just breakdown or are injured.

Because you watch some of these animals every week/every two weeks you really feel like you know them. It's not just some dead horse to you, it's a dead Exotic Dancer whom you've watched many a time running the race of his life and being up against the best horses. A horse that you've cheered on for many a race as he was just such a wonderful animal.

Monet's Garden having a hoof infection grabbed the Racing World's attention (or at least it seemed to) and almost every reader, no doubt, was rooting for him as he fought back from it.

TBF to Aintree there were tonnes of vets on the track (BHA stated a 150 specialist staff were on duty at Aintree focussed on making the race as safe as possible though they don't state how many of them were vets) and I am sure they were there ASAP. In fact, within 2/3 minutes of falling the areas were blocked off and vets were on their way to the fallen horses.
I think that's a pretty decent response time TBH.

I would almost argue that the current sensationalist media and the animal rights activists, like Animal Aid, who want an outright ban on racing (As that is what Animal Aid really want) don't understand horse racing and especially National Hunt and the strong feelings many of the NH supporters have towards the horses.

It's a tragedy that two good horses died in the Grand National, and it's a tragedy that several more horses died or were injured in races outside the Grand National. It was very sad to see indeed, but it's a risk that comes with this physical sport. the sport is doing all it can to limit the dangers to any horses and the horses are well taken care off. Unfortunately, sometimes they fall...and sometimes they even fall badly and are hurt, or killed.
Tragic yes, a reason to ban it..I don't think so.
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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2011, 09:16:42 AM »

Just for the record, I certainly wasn't arguing for a ban, I just wanted to instigate a debate on the moral issues.
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« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2011, 09:35:45 AM »

Just for the record, I certainly wasn't arguing for a ban, I just wanted to instigate a debate on the moral issues.

Yeah, I guessed that TBH.

It just does my head in that this sort of debate is had every time after the National. "Should we lower the fences (even more)" "Should we make the race 4M instead of 4M4F"? and it's ussually the same people that bring it up (The Independent has been doing this since at least 2006). Doesn't matter what the ground conditions are, doesn't matter how many finishers there were or whether any horses were hurt, they always bring it up.

The problem this time is that all the tabloids, with their ussual reactionary methods, are running with it as well (Must be a slow week) and this could really hurt racing. There hasn't been a balanced side put forward in any of the articles that I have read and the fringe groups who shout the loudest (Like Animal Aid) are the ones that grab the headlines.

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« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2011, 10:08:16 AM »

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL/604/

Animal Aid website.

I don't mind hippies, and I don't mind tree-huggers. I'm all for being nice to animals....but this lot is just meh.

"Let's all turn Vegan and ban all animal sports"

Naff Off.

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL/623//#one

When I read this, I just start hating all people with funny coloured hair.
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« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2011, 10:32:10 AM »

If you lower the fences and shorten the race it isn't the Grand National anymore, it is just a regular national hunt race. Even if you diluted the national into less of a challenge the horses would still be at risk, I've seen horses die racing on the flat. Lots of sports involve risk to the participant, from motor racing to downhill skiing, and the risk is what creates the magic and excitement within that sport. A lot of people will argue the horse doesn't have a choice so it's unfair. But racing is what that horse was born and bred to do and even when the rider is unseated the horse will still carry on racing when it does have a choice. A racehorse innately wants to race. Given the choice I don't think a race horse would pull out of the national before the start in the same way Lewis Hamilton wouldn't jump out of his car before the start of a grand prix.

If you were to ban or lessen this type of racing it would impact upon the demand for national hunt horses. If you lessen the demand less will be bred. So really making national hunt less exciting kills more horses before the little fellas are even born. We deny them the chance to race at all, feel the wind in their mane, taste victory in the sport of champions. So sad. Somebody pull a screen around our morality and put it to sleep pls.
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« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2011, 11:49:46 AM »

If you lower the fences and shorten the race it isn't the Grand National anymore, it is just a regular national hunt race. Even if you diluted the national into less of a challenge the horses would still be at risk, I've seen horses die racing on the flat. Lots of sports involve risk to the participant, from motor racing to downhill skiing, and the risk is what creates the magic and excitement within that sport. A lot of people will argue the horse doesn't have a choice so it's unfair. But racing is what that horse was born and bred to do and even when the rider is unseated the horse will still carry on racing when it does have a choice. A racehorse innately wants to race. Given the choice I don't think a race horse would pull out of the national before the start in the same way Lewis Hamilton wouldn't jump out of his car before the start of a grand prix.

If you were to ban or lessen this type of racing it would impact upon the demand for national hunt horses. If you lessen the demand less will be bred. So really making national hunt less exciting kills more horses before the little fellas are even born. We deny them the chance to race at all, feel the wind in their mane, taste victory in the sport of champions. So sad. Somebody pull a screen around our morality and put it to sleep pls.

Very much this.

I remember one of my first visits to Cheltenham and a horse fell at the hurdle in front of the main stand and the screens went up. 10 mins later the screens came down to reveal the horse standing up right as rain. Got the biggest cheer of the day.

Don't think I'd bother going down to attend the Cheltenham Dressage Festival.
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