blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 18, 2025, 09:47:00 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2262307 Posts in 66604 Topics by 16990 Members
Latest Member: Enut
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  The Rail
| | |-+  When stakers go bust
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: When stakers go bust  (Read 4654 times)
smashedagain
moderator of moderators
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12402


if you are gonna kiss arse you have to do it right


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2011, 02:30:52 PM »

Wow. Amazed to hear that Pete Linton did this as generally he don't get to much positive press. Wp him
Logged

[ ] ept title
[ ] wpt title
[ ] wsop braclet
[X] mickey mouse hoodies
George2Loose
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15127



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2011, 02:59:04 PM »

Wow. Amazed to hear that Pete Linton did this as generally he don't get to much positive press. Wp him

Plinton is misunderstood
Logged

Ole Ole Ole Ole!
discomonkey
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2011, 06:39:35 PM »

i was backed by an american backer pre blackfriday, and in the contract he sent to me it stated that if at any time he was unable or unwilling(ie it was too goddamn difficult to get the money to me) to continue backing me, and makeup was null and void...... once this case came up because it was hard to get money to me, any of the potential ways were going to cost extra due to double conversion rates( him to me, then me to poker sites), so he cancelled the agreement and swallowed the 15k of makeup and we parted on good terms.

i would assume it should always be like this, the contract either verbal or written is usually based on the premise that the backer can provide funds for the promised games, and if he cant then he is violating the terms of the contract and will allow the horse to seek staking elsewhere.

on a side note i think its absurd that anyone would enter into a long term arrangement without a contract written up showing expectations, outlining exactly what will be the case if these sorts of situations arise.

i think greek was very very lucky to have such decent horses that would do the things they did upon him reaching that financial situation, i would suggest a high percent of people wouldnt wait around for you to regain financial stability and a lot more would react like horse number 6 and give you nothing if u broke the terms of the arrangement (even if it was unintentional and out of your control)
Logged
George2Loose
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15127



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2011, 07:41:12 PM »

i was backed by an american backer pre blackfriday, and in the contract he sent to me it stated that if at any time he was unable or unwilling(ie it was too goddamn difficult to get the money to me) to continue backing me, and makeup was null and void...... once this case came up because it was hard to get money to me, any of the potential ways were going to cost extra due to double conversion rates( him to me, then me to poker sites), so he cancelled the agreement and swallowed the 15k of makeup and we parted on good terms.

i would assume it should always be like this, the contract either verbal or written is usually based on the premise that the backer can provide funds for the promised games, and if he cant then he is violating the terms of the contract and will allow the horse to seek staking elsewhere.

on a side note i think its absurd that anyone would enter into a long term arrangement without a contract written up showing expectations, outlining exactly what will be the case if these sorts of situations arise.

i think greek was very very lucky to have such decent horses that would do the things they did upon him reaching that financial situation, i would suggest a high percent of people wouldnt wait around for you to regain financial stability and a lot more would react like horse number 6 and give you nothing if u broke the terms of the arrangement (even if it was unintentional and out of your control)

I'd imagine most deals are without contracts esp. amongst British players. Maybe that's why we're so great. Cos most of us are trustworthy although u do get the odd exception.
Logged

Ole Ole Ole Ole!
PizzicatoXev
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 261


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2011, 09:05:38 PM »

I was in a pretty similar position to discomonkey (circa $28K MU though). I didnt have a contract with my backer though we both have a solid understanding of how things work. My backer knows that he has technically no claim on the makeup but I will buy it out at a favourable rate as and when it becomes possible. If he is in the position to back me again in the future I would seriously consider it based on circumstances at the time and the deal on offer. I am under no obligation to accept any deal but based on friendship and other things I would likely accept anyway.

Contracts, even emailed ones, are fast becoming the norm and its backer going bust isn't something usually covered in them which is something that should probably change at some point.
Logged
GreekStein
Hero Member
Hero Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 20728



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2011, 09:44:05 PM »

I had a stable of 6 when I went busto - mostly playing SNGS (one MTTs) and one PLO.

None had an obligation to pay me back and I wouldn't have expected that.

3 of them waited until I had built my roll back up enough so they could resume play and did so.

One of them got a new backer who bought the small makeup from me.

One who had like $1.4k makeup won a big stars tourney for $60k months later and unexpectedly shipped me the makeup figure + drink. <3 PLINTON.

The last one had a new backer and things became a bit awkward as they were unwilling to play off makeup but I think that was me having unreasonable expectations because all my other horses had been such good guys about the whole thing.

I was very happy with the way things worked out and think what I learnt is that I wouldn't stake anyone I didn't trust over 99.5% with my money. They would have to be good but first and foremost completely trustworthy.

Cos, are you still staking people?

If no, at what financial position would you consider getting into staking again?

It seems that players generally understand the outline rules for bankroll management when it comes to playing themselves, but is it fair to say that backers are often less disciplined / have poorer BRM when it comes to staking?
Are there any BRM guidelines that stakers should apply?

Hey sir.

First question is a sick rub! Wp. I don't even stake myself atm hahaha.

I honestly don't know - really there are only a small group of people I'd stake, having learnt the biggest lesson I could have ever learnt with Riverdave. That being if you have the slightest tiniest little doubt, it's not worth it (and I had a much bigger doubt than that with him).

I was lucky in that I was in a position to be able to stake some of my best friends in poker - Linton, Bedi, Sovietsong. At any time I would give any of the 3 my password to log in and send themselves funds and never had the slightest doubt or worry about them.  It was kind of just lucky circumstances that these guys wanted staking at similar times and I was in a position to be able to do it. My roll was only about $30kish when I began the staking and that was really sufficient for the games they were all playing - none got in very high makeup at all but I was very selective in kinda staking beneath their skill sets. For example - Linton beats much higher than $100PLO but that's all he would play. Same with Bedi and Sovietsong in the level of SNGs/MTTs they were playing. I made sure I was combatting variance as much as possible.

In fact it was the most tilting thing about going broke - the fact that I could no longer stake these guys. Bedi has obv done well since. Linton won some sick amount at 100plo in the weeks or so that followed, something like 200 buy ins and then went on to chop a big comp on stars, all action that could have been mine. Not that I begrudge anyone ofcourse - Pete is one of my best friends and I'd bend over backwards for the guy but yeh my own personal mistake cost me a lot as the stable was making as much per week as I was.

I'm not sure what rules backers should apply really but I guess a lot of backers are poor in their judgement of what players should play. A lot seem to stake players for games with buy ins that really are higher than their skill set or games that they are breakeven/small winners at when it would be more financially rewarding for them to play lower.

Logged

@GreekStein on twitter.

Retired Policeman, Part time troll.
77dave
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4010


5 2 off


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2011, 09:54:24 PM »

So how would you rate trust against potential when choosing a horse.
Logged

Mantis - I would like to thank 77dave for his more realistic take on things.
GreekStein
Hero Member
Hero Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 20728



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2011, 10:09:30 PM »

Well I wouldn't have anyone as a horse I didn't think was going to win at a nice rate at the games I was going to stake them for but trust definitely comes first and foremost.

Let's say linton's win rate was 4bb/100 hands (it was much more in reality), I would sooner take him than someone who showed me a 300k sample of winning at 15bbs/100 if I thought there was even a 5% chance something could go wrong.
Logged

@GreekStein on twitter.

Retired Policeman, Part time troll.
CHIPPYMAN
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1808



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2011, 12:20:14 PM »

there r no contract anyway. if I cant afford staking at one stage or the horse
r not making me any profit and on a big makeup, u can just say " hey there i am SORRY u not winning and i have to pull out "

simple as that.

 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.251 seconds with 20 queries.