Opinions on Two Poker Rulings Please

[kinboshi]

A player did this in Ireland at the IPO, exposed his cards in exactly the same situation.  Ruling was the same, he could call, and then he was given a substantial penalty.  I think it might have been 20 minutes.

He was a drunk, arrogant, generally unpleasant arse and the whole table was happy to see him away from the table for a while.

[PhatBoyPoker]

A player did this in Ireland at the IPO, exposed his cards in exactly the same situation.  Ruling was the same, he could call, and then he was given a substantial penalty.  I think it might have been 20 minutes.

He was a drunk, arrogant, generally unpleasant arse and the whole table was happy to see him away from the table for a while.

Hey...

Well I still dont see how that helps the player he then makes the call against... as I said the guy who made the all in lost 80% of his chips... hey it was only a £30 tourney... but yeah imagine it was a big tourney... I just dont think a player should be able to deliberatly do this to gain a read... but just my opinion I guess

Thanks for all the input...

Funny things is I had a situation a while back... slightly different but my hand was called "dead" so I guess that's why I am tilting so much... Was in the later stages of a tournement, I wake up with pocket Aces in mid position... I raise to 1600 (blinds were 400/200) A guy on the button shoves in a huge amount of chips, which I take it to put me all in... I say "well I have to call" and shove my stack in, which was about 9800 in total... I flip over my aces... he immediatly calls for a ruling as he has only bet 9000 in total... the TD comes over and rules my hand dead, and returns my odd 800 chips... and the player takes down the pot... sucks to me hey !

[doubleup]

Funny things is I had a situation a while back... slightly different but my hand was called "dead" so I guess that's why I am tilting so much... Was in the later stages of a tournement, I wake up with pocket Aces in mid position... I raise to 1600 (blinds were 400/200) A guy on the button shoves in a huge amount of chips, which I take it to put me all in... I say "well I have to call" and shove my stack in, which was about 9800 in total... I flip over my aces... he immediatly calls for a ruling as he has only bet 9000 in total... the TD comes over and rules my hand dead, and returns my odd 800 chips... and the player takes down the pot... sucks to me hey !

The guy that got your hand killed is exactly the kind of angle-shooting pos I was referring to in my earlier post.

[WotRTheChances]

In my experiance people only show cards in this spot to show the table they have a genuine decision... or to make the table aware of the decision they are contemplating. It's not normally to get a read on an opponent. It really doesn't give you that much of an edge unless you are a serious 'live pro' and the opponent gives something away. The 'false check' thing would annoy me a lot more, as the player gets a clear edge (assuming it was definately deliberate), watching you check behind and then is able to lead following the ruling.

Recently i've noticed a lot more issues with rulings and errors being made. Seems largely down to the standard of dealers, which has definately dropped considerably in the time i've been playing (i've heard a lot of the experianced dealers make this point).

[jgcblack]

Steve,

You and I know each other, both on facbook and in livepoker... 

on the points in question -

1- In Luton get Raj or Dan Best on it! George is sometimes a bit of a pussy, but it is hard to fight the Reg's on this kind of thing!  You just have to be loud and outspoken enough!

2 - the hand should never be dead after just one hand of angle shooting, despite how blatent or monstrous it is! he should always be able to play the hand, and the guys in northampton (our local) rule hands dead way too often!


The guys in this thread are bang on imo.


jb.
seeya soon.


p.s. the tattenhoe kebab van is the mother-f*cking-nuts!

[pokerfan]

p.s. the tattenhoe kebab van is the mother-f*cking-nuts!

Think you might find that Jason's donner van, Clifton Bristol is the mother- f*ckng-nuts !

[EvilPie]

p.s. the tattenhoe kebab van is the mother-f*cking-nuts!

Think you might find that Jason's donner van, Clifton Bristol is the mother- f*ckng-nuts !

Lol. Best name ever!!

[pokerfan]

p.s. the tattenhoe kebab van is the mother-f*cking-nuts!

Think you might find that Jason's donner van, Clifton Bristol is the mother- f*ckng-nuts !

Lol. Best name ever!!

Ha yeah, genius.

[Cf]

A player did this in Ireland at the IPO, exposed his cards in exactly the same situation.  Ruling was the same, he could call, and then he was given a substantial penalty.  I think it might have been 20 minutes.

He was a drunk, arrogant, generally unpleasant arse and the whole table was happy to see him away from the table for a while.

Hey...

Well I still dont see how that helps the player he then makes the call against... as I said the guy who made the all in lost 80% of his chips... hey it was only a £30 tourney... but yeah imagine it was a big tourney... I just dont think a player should be able to deliberatly do this to gain a read... but just my opinion I guess

Thanks for all the input...

Funny things is I had a situation a while back... slightly different but my hand was called "dead" so I guess that's why I am tilting so much... Was in the later stages of a tournement, I wake up with pocket Aces in mid position... I raise to 1600 (blinds were 400/200) A guy on the button shoves in a huge amount of chips, which I take it to put me all in... I say "well I have to call" and shove my stack in, which was about 9800 in total... I flip over my aces... he immediatly calls for a ruling as he has only bet 9000 in total... the TD comes over and rules my hand dead, and returns my odd 800 chips... and the player takes down the pot... sucks to me hey !

But surely your experience there shows just why hands should not be killed? Abs terrible ruling which only opens the door for angle shooters and does nothing to protect integrity of the game. If that were my card room you'd get no penalty and the other player would get a warning for angle shooting.


To bring up a related point...

"No aggressive action allowed."

Am I the only one who disagrees with this rule in every single instance someone suggests it? Really do not see the need.

[relaedgc]

Steve,

You and I know each other, both on facbook and in livepoker... 

on the points in question -

1- In Luton get Raj or Dan Best on it! George is sometimes a bit of a pussy, but it is hard to fight the Reg's on this kind of thing!  You just have to be loud and outspoken enough!

2 - the hand should never be dead after just one hand of angle shooting, despite how blatent or monstrous it is! he should always be able to play the hand, and the guys in northampton (our local) rule hands dead way too often!


The guys in this thread are bang on imo.


jb.
seeya soon.


p.s. the tattenhoe kebab van is the mother-f*cking-nuts!

Don't know that I am a pussy when it comes making a ruling, Mr. Black. I am pretty fair and transparent in all that I do and I don't think I am guilty of bending over to the regulars when it comes to enforcement of the rules.

It certainly wasn't me that dealt with these two issues.

With the first situation, it is a rather difficult situation if a TD is called to the table and you're told.. I thought this player had checked. If the dealer isn't in a position to clarify then it is really just a judgment call that goes one way or the other.

I have documented my thoughts on all the ridiculous ways people elect to 'check' and the unfortunate consequences of these alleged actions.

As for exposing your hand, it is not allowed at any point. That said if a player does, Grosvenor rules do not deem the hand to be dead. He will be penalised for it after the hand.

[luther101]

Mmmmmmmm - as they say there are always two sides to every 'story'     ......     so time for a Loofah Review of the 'dreaded' Incident No: 1  @ the Luton G!

A very rotund man - who we shall refer to henceforth as George Dawes Senior - is in a hand with a Luton Reg.

LR raises in the BB - whilst deep in conversation with Jim McBride - and GDS flats the bet.

Flop came down 7 high (no Queen on the board - maybe you were fantasising, young sir!).

LR still chatting to JM hears GDS announce check and says, "hold up, I haven't acted" - before the dealer can expose the turn card - and bets 700.

GDS then goes off into one    .....     rabidly moaning about angle shooting.

When the other players at the table asked if he was phuqqin serious - we were treated to a diatribe of the "card room being ruled by some sort of local committee."

LR said to red-faced - over excited – GDS, "Just get a ruling then."

TD (Nina) called, and it was confirmed by all that no "check" was announced - nor heard – and a very unhappy GDS was informed that mid air gesticulations of the arm did not constitute a ‘check’.

GDS continued to burble on, and on, and - in time honoured Luton Tradition – was invited to STFU.

For GDS’s information        ……      the LR had raised with 7 8 suited connectors, hit top pair, and wasn’t willing to give you a free card!

He also found your babblings about angle shooting rather absurd at level 2 of a ‘run of the mill’ midweek comp      …..    with less than 750 in the pot!

How do I know all this, Mr GDS?

I was the ‘nasty villain’ who pulled all those ‘strokes’ to take down that pot!

Next time you post     …..      please try to at least report an accurate account.

And maybe next time before you play live      …..     you should acquaint yourself with the rules – and etiquette – of the live game, then you might not have made yourself look like such a plonker!

FYI     ….      experienced players don’t take too kindly to such allegations!

Politeness personified       .....        phuqq knows how I haven't let rip!