Call it off? Live £1-2

[muckthenuts]

Shortly into the start of the table i've been very active.

In EP i raise a limp to £10 with   .
A good player next to me makes it £33 (£350). Not been partic aggro but is capable of doing this with non nut hands, also i believe i have a pretty solid read that he isn't so strong here.
A gambly Vietnamese fish waiting for the omaha cold calls in the BB (£300)

Back to me I make it £100. Thoughts and on sizing?

3better folds while fish flicks the rest in and we go heads up to  

He open ships for ~£200. Wug?

Def interested in comments on pre and our thrilled factor otf.

[GreekStein]

I assume you cover?

Yes I do a call here.

[pleno1]

wow pre looks like quite a big mistake. would flat call.

i dont usually fold here, we block 2 combos of qj, but then again block combos to j9/j10. just try to stove him a realistic range accoutning for more combo of certain hands that we are more likely to see, but still adding some of the others for spaz factor. i.e double the kq combos than 8x

[cambridgealex]

i disagree pre seems absolutely fine.

You have the 4th best hand in poker, vs a wideish range (that you have a read isn't nutted) and a fish peely range that almost certainly you crush.

raise for value, it looks like a squeeze to them, and the fish will lol peel his entire range more or less.

i'd massively sigh fold the flop because it's so annoying, but you always get shown KQs here, although it's not out of the question that he has 99/TT...

[pleno1]

if hes a good reg then he probably will be 3betting way less than everybody thinks as he should cold call with a wideish yet still strongish range vs the fish with a bunch of the hands he would usually 3bet. Unless we know he is particularly aggro in any form, i.e if I sit vs George2loose I know he has an aggro side so 4betting may be good, but I would still usually prefer flatting with these stacks.. but if I sat say vs Sharplea that I know is probably good but I have no info on his game except he "could be aggressive" then its probably really bad.

You're 4bet/folding the JJ if you 4bet right?

[cambridgealex]

not necessarily

[pleno1]

it would, imo be a momumental error to 4b/call. Many of the hands that he would maybe play like ths, pairs/broadways/axs should be overcalling vs the fish, and this deep people wont just unt with like j8o. It's live not online, even online with bigger dynamics over a lot more hands played people would never really jam "light" here. Even getting in QQ would be probably bad I think.

[cambridgealex]

u just cant generalise and say that it would be 100% a monumental error. you can say that vs most people it would be terrible, which may be true, but there's some people its a fistpump get in. e.g. PJ - we have aggro dynamic he'll 3bet me light, ill 4bet him light, he'l 5b jam light. so his value will be TT+, AQ+ which its obv fine to get in JJ vs on its own, not taking into account random Ax, broadway bluffs etc.

[jgcblack]

Vs the majority of all live players I've played with 4b/calling JJ pre for stacks with no direct history will not end well.

i dont think there are any better lines than to flat pre and take a good hand multiway with position on the fish and a good hand oop vs 3b-er.

on this flop, its super read dependant, I probably do a call most of the time...

[SuuPRlim]

With Amir's read that the 3better isn't too strong i think pre-flop is correct, agree with no history flatting prolly the better line although 4betting with the vietnameese guy in the hand is so so so tempting if you have just an inkling your 3better can 3bet light.

Also, JJ is not a good multiway hand, although obviously holds a decent amount of post-flop value with Mr Vietnam in the pot.

I always call here in game, it's so tilting though cos its basically totally random, calling likely a small-ish mistake but im usually sufficiently tilted enough to just call off lol.

AK id call, but then i'd call JJ too, fuck it lol

[Pugwashed]

Flatting pre definitely way better than 4betting as a standard. If you have some read that 3bettor is really likely to be light here and you think he's folding a ton to your 4bet then there is some merit to 4betting to iso the fish but beyond that 4betting definitely seems like a mistake

[sedds]

With the money in the pot i like the 4bet, although £1/£2 live rarely has the dynamics to 4bet/call JJ imo, even with a little history. I've played with a vietnamese gambler who is always waiting for omaha, he sometimes seems like a super nit but then goes crazy with draws, can't remember his name at all right now though.