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Author Topic: Fighting the Ambler Gambler- Am I the worst? 2 Hands  (Read 1231 times)
rfgqqabc
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« on: July 12, 2013, 02:12:38 PM »

Tom has bought in for £100 and managed a ridiculously quick spin up. He is sat on about ~350 for this hand.

£1/2 Sheffield
Tom is in the straddle, I open to 14 with QQ, and get 3 flats, then Tom tanks says "This is my first mistake tonight" and peels. It felt like a 100% tanking the 3bet. T33 rainbow. 2 checks and I decide to check because the guy behind is a massive whale, he had £700 when I started and has randomly smashed various amounts of stacks in and got folds and got there etc. I felt he might open jam a ten here (weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) and I wasn't too scared about many turns. So I knuckle and we see a turn, completing the rainbow. This is then checked to me, I bet £36, get a foldx2 and a call from a weaker player, who was active preflop and didn't really like to fold. He would rarely valuebet unless checked to twice. Tom then calls behind. The river is an and the first guy checks, TA leads for £137 fairly quickly. I am fairly sure the river lead was a plan for him from the turn. I am fairly confident the guy behind has a T/J and is not calling/raising or doing anything other than folding if I called behind. TA looks relatively comfortable. I am not sure if he has the same reads as me, he joined the game a touch later.


Hand 2: I am playing around ~950 at this point. TA has seen me build up from ~350. He is playing £563.
Weaker player from hand 1s river limps playing £500, TA limps behind, aggressive strange player makes it £14 playing ~400, I flat QdTd from the SB, fold, TA peels.
Flop:  (pot:43)
Checks around
Turn:
I lead for £26, TA makes it £79 extremely quickly with 3x pony and 4x £1s, fold, I elect to call.
River: three clubs
I check after ~4-5s and TA ships even quicker for £470.

On the river he did not move all his chips forward, like he expected a quick fold. His heart rate did not seem noticeably higher than before and he seemed fairly relaxed until I said I block a few hands. TA has shown he isn't afraid to limp behind, and came to play, but this was a perfectly acceptable table to do so on. I haven't seen any of his hands that have shown down after a limp I don't think. I tanked for a long time and tried to get something out of him. At one point he showed the dealer one of his cards, and the dealer seemed somewhat surprised. The dealer kept looking at the . He wouldn't make eye contact. I have very little idea how TA perceives me as a player, someone who would make a light call here, or someone who is adequately rolled etc etc. As an aside, calling and losing wouldn't affect my hourly expectations (ev wise obv) for the session in my opinion, I felt very good and the table was good. I would have reloaded to cover certain players if they had a vast amount more than me, so any minor considerations like that can be overlooked. This was the first time we played live. He had joked about playing a £1k pot earlier in the night with another player, and spoke back a touch during the hand. Fwiw, the guy next to me has peered over and seen the , and I have no idea if he showed anything in his face which would make TA think I have a weak hand.
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[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
[21:11:08] Patrick Leonard: oll
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 03:11:54 PM »

Hand 1: Call. But also, bet the flop.

Hand 2: Fold. Also, fold to the turn raise. Also, don't lead the turn. Also, fold preflop.

Regarding the river in hand 2. Yes, your range is sort of capped since you are unlikely to even have Q9s or 97s in your preflop range, and if you did then you would usually put in more action on the turn with them. So it does make a bit of sense for him to be constructing an overbetting range on the river. Nevertheless, you can still have all the sets in your range, so overbetting is still a risky business for him. You would probably be 3betting the flop with your sets a chunk of the time, but not always - especially if you know he is an overbettor... you need to make some 'risky slowplays' to punish him for recklessly overbetting.

Your specific hand is right down the bottom of your range so I am not quite sure why you are thinking of doing anything other than folding it. Obviously, if you have some ninja read then anything goes and I realise you have posted some live tell stuff in the HH. But that is something only you can decide when present in the moment. Without some sick live read it is the easiest of easy folds. If he is bluffing this time then no big deal... you have more than enough stronger hands in your range to call him with to make him indifferent to bluffing.
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 03:30:40 PM »

Hand 1: Call. But also, bet the flop.

Hand 2: Fold. Also, fold to the turn raise. Also, don't lead the turn. Also, fold preflop.

Regarding the river in hand 2. Yes, your range is sort of capped since you are unlikely to even have Q9s or 97s in your preflop range, and if you did then you would usually put in more action on the turn with them. So it does make a bit of sense for him to be constructing an overbetting range on the river. Nevertheless, you can still have all the sets in your range, so overbetting is still a risky business for him. You would probably be 3betting the flop with your sets a chunk of the time, but not always - especially if you know he is an overbettor... you need to make some 'risky slowplays' to punish him for recklessly overbetting.

Your specific hand is right down the bottom of your range so I am not quite sure why you are thinking of doing anything other than folding it. Obviously, if you have some ninja read then anything goes and I realise you have posted some live tell stuff in the HH. But that is something only you can decide when present in the moment. Without some sick live read it is the easiest of easy folds. If he is bluffing this time then no big deal... you have more than enough stronger hands in your range to call him with to make him indifferent to bluffing.
I'm somewhat indifferent about the river, but I definitely agree with the turn.

Why wouldn't you lead? I certainly think I lead too small, much prefer 2/3 pot. Checking seems poor? There is a lot in the pot, we cant really c/c and we probably have the best hand? Or am I wrong here. Thing is I don't have that many sets because I probably 3bet JJ/TT a decent chunk here (maybe 70/33%) I feel like QT is almost an easier call than JT because I'd be amazed to see a set here and we block a Q? Maybe I'm a bit off and having something like 99 here is correct for that. I'm not sure if im overthinking it here. I think you are right though, it feels very silly to do anything other than fold but at the same time, what on earth does he have for value. Limp/called 97o/Q9o? If not we lose to 7 combos potentially and there are lots of friskier hands. If Tom had bought in for £500 I would have thought about the call a lot less, so maybe i reverted back to my overthinking style. Even if we give him all 55 combos then we really dont have to find that many calls and Tom certainly is capable of this bluff imo.

Hand 1 I think your 100% right but I can't explain how fishy that guy was. if the turn was a and he picked up any sort of draw/pair he would stack off. Only 11 cards I'm particularly afraid of in A/K/T but apart from that its all gravy right?
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 03:41:58 PM »


Your specific hand is right down the bottom of your range so I am not quite sure why you are thinking of doing anything other than folding it.
See title Tongue


And if you want to fold previous flop when its fairly certain we are going at least 3 ways £350 deep with one weaker player, a stronger player and 550 deep with Mr. Ambler? Its so pretty. Fwiw, the button opened to £24 at 1/2/4 after 6 limps so I do not think he was particularly strong as a player.
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[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 05:11:46 PM »


Your specific hand is right down the bottom of your range so I am not quite sure why you are thinking of doing anything other than folding it.
See title Tongue


And if you want to fold previous flop when its fairly certain we are going at least 3 ways £350 deep with one weaker player, a stronger player and 550 deep with Mr. Ambler? Its so pretty. Fwiw, the button opened to £24 at 1/2/4 after 6 limps so I do not think he was particularly strong as a player.

Yeah I still want to fold, especially as it is going at least 3 ways! You're going to be out of position and your most likely hand to flop is a medium strength top pair. Plus, even the tiniest chance that someone is going to re-raise behind you fucks all the maths up anyway. Plus, it's not like it is a small raise.

And I don't see why opening to £24 after 6 limpers at 1/2/4 proves that someone is not a strong player. It seems slightly too small to me, but whatever...
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 05:37:21 PM »


Your specific hand is right down the bottom of your range so I am not quite sure why you are thinking of doing anything other than folding it.
See title Tongue


And if you want to fold previous flop when its fairly certain we are going at least 3 ways £350 deep with one weaker player, a stronger player and 550 deep with Mr. Ambler? Its so pretty. Fwiw, the button opened to £24 at 1/2/4 after 6 limps so I do not think he was particularly strong as a player.

Yeah I still want to fold, especially as it is going at least 3 ways! You're going to be out of position and your most likely hand to flop is a medium strength top pair. Plus, even the tiniest chance that someone is going to re-raise behind you fucks all the maths up anyway. Plus, it's not like it is a small raise.

And I don't see why opening to £24 after 6 limpers at 1/2/4 proves that someone is not a strong player. It seems slightly too small to me, but whatever...
He had A8o. It seemed really poor at the time. But the raise was very big (in QT hand).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 05:44:21 PM by rfgqqabc » Logged

[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 05:59:49 PM »

would defo fold hand 2, defo. Id call pre-flop though but im bad like this.

I'd c/f every street though.

Hand 1. Seems like a fold as well, although its tough to have a better hand than this as played, feels like we only beat JT and if be surprised if he's bluffing...
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aaron1867
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 08:46:56 AM »

Not player with Tom for a long time at cash, but I'm pretty confident you are getting crushed, because how you play the situation seems definitely like how Tom plays when he is strong.

Tom can play any two from any position, so putting him on a hand here is difficult, but definitely think you are crushed, such a big range at times
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