Ladbrokes H1 Results.

[AlunB]

Alun you really think any of those sites have made more money because of the changes?

I feel like you might know more than me here but such huge reductions in traffic can't be compensated by higher margins.

Huge reductions, no, but more modest reductions probably yes. You can do the maths yourself, but if yield per player goes up by say 20% then what sort of drop can you stomach and still make more money?

For the sportsbooks it's also not really about making more money from the poker it's stopping poker from draining money out of the system. If you have a sports bettor who wins £1k and loses it all to some poker player and you rake £5 that's an horrendous situation for you.

Unibet's moves were not done to grow poker really.

[SuperJez]

Laddies used to have $1.50/$3 NL tables, and a Swedish kid I became good friends with (leecz000r) was making $30k a month, which is just ridiculous.

Yeah I remember that guy!  He was crazy, had a really wild style and got some big value out of thin holdings with it.

Warning very tl dr

I first played Ladbrokes poker in 2002 when late night poker was all the rage on TV.  There were about 400 players max on at peak times and no MTTs at all.  They had a daily promotion where the highest hand dealt got $500.  No rakeback.  Roy "the boy" Brindley was the sponsored pro and a scary looking player called the_salmon sat at $50/100 fixed limit tables with $10,000.  At the time that seemed insane to me and I wondered what sort of mug would dare take him on.  The memory is a little hazy, $50/100 might have come in 2003 but Ladbrokes had big fixed limit tables quite early.  Every other player appeared to be from somewhere called "linkoping".

The site from 03-07 had a community feel like no other.  Ladbrokes helped it with the player profiles etc but there was something unique about the site as a standalone. Everyone from that time who tried online poker - their first experience was Ladbrokes (for me it was the one place I decided wouldn't rip me off if I won or deal dodgy cards).  I went on both the first two cruises (first one around the med second one the carribean) which were equally as amazing as each other and a dream come true for me to qualify for them both.  On the first I met some killer players at the time like pokergirl, the_salmon and Dared (wtf happened to that guy?)  I also met Adam "square7" Lee who I had talked to online a few times before  He was a real pro gambler, RIP.  On the second I played a wild cash game on the first night with a few scandis and the man himself tikay.  I remember one hand where tikay limped UTG and I raised AQs, a wild scandi who called pretty much anything flatted it but when it got back to tikay he went all in for approx. $800 (we were playing $1/2).  I folded and the Scandinavian called, tikay proudly showed me AJ (which won the pot) like it was the nuts and I wanted to spew.

Anyway I don't mean to ramble but there was an interesting incident on the 2nd cruise which for me started the downfall of Ladbrokes poker.  At the time I felt the staff in charge (who I had met on the events) were all knowledgeable etc about poker and really wanted to grow the game.  On the 2nd cruise Ladbrokes tried to implement a system where ppl could load up their Ladbrokes poker accounts before they left for Miami with money and take it out on board.  Great so I loaded mine up as did everyone else.  When we were at sea the action was wild, stacks of $20k at $1/2 and huge PLO games running etc.  The staff seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the withdrawals for whatever reason with huge queues.  Eventually something happened and everyone got access to the money on the ship.   A few weeks later back at home I thought my Ladbrokes account was a little large given I had withdrawn some money on board. Didn't think anything of it and just played as normal.  A good 8 months later I received a phone call from someone at Ladbrokes who explained there was a problem and I owed them money.  Apparently the internet did not work very well at sea and Ladbrokes had been issuing money without actually taking it out of accounts the whole time on board.  For whatever reason this had not been reconciled properly back in the UK and nobodys account had been debited - I owed them $800.  This matched what I thought but I squeezed the guy for more info and he admitted some players had got away with 6 figures and just withdrawn it when they got home and realised the mistake.  I asked him what would happen if I didn't pay he said they would put a negative balance on the account but couldn't do much else.  I paid (because I am dumb like that) but I don't think many who owed a total of hundreds of thousands did.  Funnily enough not long after that incident there were rumours of a massive change in staff at Ladbrokes poker and the site took a new direction.  From having ppl in charge that loved poker they went to having people in charge who were clueless about poker.  To me it was a big noticeable difference  Then the market started shrinking 2007 onwards and they could not hold on even by joining the microgaming network.  Many other networks survived like boss media but Ladbrokes started messing everything up big time.

Stuff I also remember from the time

1) Ladbrokes were seriously considering taking US players for poker only in the middle of 2006 then the UIGEA hit in October and put a stop to that.

2) The race horse "laddies poker"

3) Paul Jackson absolutely crushing MTTs on there when they first opened

4) Some Geordie guy folding AA pre on the bubble in the 2nd cruise and telling everyone about it constantly.

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6BzGRm_pm0

[vegaslover]

Laddies used to have $1.50/$3 NL tables, and a Swedish kid I became good friends with (leecz000r) was making $30k a month, which is just ridiculous.

Yeah I remember that guy!  He was crazy, had a really wild style and got some big value out of thin holdings with it.

Warning very tl dr

I first played Ladbrokes poker in 2002 when late night poker was all the rage on TV.  There were about 400 players max on at peak times and no MTTs at all.  They had a daily promotion where the highest hand dealt got $500.  No rakeback.  Roy "the boy" Brindley was the sponsored pro and a scary looking player called the_salmon sat at $50/100 fixed limit tables with $10,000.  At the time that seemed insane to me and I wondered what sort of mug would dare take him on.  The memory is a little hazy, $50/100 might have come in 2003 but Ladbrokes had big fixed limit tables quite early.  Every other player appeared to be from somewhere called "linkoping".

The site from 03-07 had a community feel like no other.  Ladbrokes helped it with the player profiles etc but there was something unique about the site as a standalone. Everyone from that time who tried online poker - their first experience was Ladbrokes (for me it was the one place I decided wouldn't rip me off if I won or deal dodgy cards).  I went on both the first two cruises (first one around the med second one the carribean) which were equally as amazing as each other and a dream come true for me to qualify for them both.  On the first I met some killer players at the time like pokergirl, the_salmon and Dared (wtf happened to that guy?)  I also met Adam "square7" Lee who I had talked to online a few times before  He was a real pro gambler, RIP.  On the second I played a wild cash game on the first night with a few scandis and the man himself tikay.  I remember one hand where tikay limped UTG and I raised AQs, a wild scandi who called pretty much anything flatted it but when it got back to tikay he went all in for approx. $800 (we were playing $1/2).  I folded and the Scandinavian called, tikay proudly showed me AJ (which won the pot) like it was the nuts and I wanted to spew.

Anyway I don't mean to ramble but there was an interesting incident on the 2nd cruise which for me started the downfall of Ladbrokes poker.  At the time I felt the staff in charge (who I had met on the events) were all knowledgeable etc about poker and really wanted to grow the game.  On the 2nd cruise Ladbrokes tried to implement a system where ppl could load up their Ladbrokes poker accounts before they left for Miami with money and take it out on board.  Great so I loaded mine up as did everyone else.  When we were at sea the action was wild, stacks of $20k at $1/2 and huge PLO games running etc.  The staff seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the withdrawals for whatever reason with huge queues.  Eventually something happened and everyone got access to the money on the ship.   A few weeks later back at home I thought my Ladbrokes account was a little large given I had withdrawn some money on board. Didn't think anything of it and just played as normal.  A good 8 months later I received a phone call from someone at Ladbrokes who explained there was a problem and I owed them money.  Apparently the internet did not work very well at sea and Ladbrokes had been issuing money without actually taking it out of accounts the whole time on board.  For whatever reason this had not been reconciled properly back in the UK and nobodys account had been debited - I owed them $800.  This matched what I thought but I squeezed the guy for more info and he admitted some players had got away with 6 figures and just withdrawn it when they got home and realised the mistake.  I asked him what would happen if I didn't pay he said they would put a negative balance on the account but couldn't do much else.  I paid (because I am dumb like that) but I don't think many who owed a total of hundreds of thousands did.  Funnily enough not long after that incident there were rumours of a massive change in staff at Ladbrokes poker and the site took a new direction.  From having ppl in charge that loved poker they went to having people in charge who were clueless about poker.  To me it was a big noticeable difference  Then the market started shrinking 2007 onwards and they could not hold on even by joining the microgaming network.  Many other networks survived like boss media but Ladbrokes started messing everything up big time.

Stuff I also remember from the time

1) Ladbrokes were seriously considering taking US players for poker only in the middle of 2006 then the UIGEA hit in October and put a stop to that.

2) The race horse "laddies poker"

3) Paul Jackson absolutely crushing MTTs on there when they first opened

4) Some Geordie guy folding AA pre on the bubble in the 2nd cruise and telling everyone about it constantly.

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6BzGRm_pm0

Nice post. Pretty sure Flushy used to have Linkoping as his location!!

[AlunB]

Laddies used to have $1.50/$3 NL tables, and a Swedish kid I became good friends with (leecz000r) was making $30k a month, which is just ridiculous.

Yeah I remember that guy!  He was crazy, had a really wild style and got some big value out of thin holdings with it.

Warning very tl dr

I first played Ladbrokes poker in 2002 when late night poker was all the rage on TV.  There were about 400 players max on at peak times and no MTTs at all.  They had a daily promotion where the highest hand dealt got $500.  No rakeback.  Roy "the boy" Brindley was the sponsored pro and a scary looking player called the_salmon sat at $50/100 fixed limit tables with $10,000.  At the time that seemed insane to me and I wondered what sort of mug would dare take him on.  The memory is a little hazy, $50/100 might have come in 2003 but Ladbrokes had big fixed limit tables quite early.  Every other player appeared to be from somewhere called "linkoping".

The site from 03-07 had a community feel like no other.  Ladbrokes helped it with the player profiles etc but there was something unique about the site as a standalone. Everyone from that time who tried online poker - their first experience was Ladbrokes (for me it was the one place I decided wouldn't rip me off if I won or deal dodgy cards).  I went on both the first two cruises (first one around the med second one the carribean) which were equally as amazing as each other and a dream come true for me to qualify for them both.  On the first I met some killer players at the time like pokergirl, the_salmon and Dared (wtf happened to that guy?)  I also met Adam "square7" Lee who I had talked to online a few times before  He was a real pro gambler, RIP.  On the second I played a wild cash game on the first night with a few scandis and the man himself tikay.  I remember one hand where tikay limped UTG and I raised AQs, a wild scandi who called pretty much anything flatted it but when it got back to tikay he went all in for approx. $800 (we were playing $1/2).  I folded and the Scandinavian called, tikay proudly showed me AJ (which won the pot) like it was the nuts and I wanted to spew.

Anyway I don't mean to ramble but there was an interesting incident on the 2nd cruise which for me started the downfall of Ladbrokes poker.  At the time I felt the staff in charge (who I had met on the events) were all knowledgeable etc about poker and really wanted to grow the game.  On the 2nd cruise Ladbrokes tried to implement a system where ppl could load up their Ladbrokes poker accounts before they left for Miami with money and take it out on board.  Great so I loaded mine up as did everyone else.  When we were at sea the action was wild, stacks of $20k at $1/2 and huge PLO games running etc.  The staff seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the withdrawals for whatever reason with huge queues.  Eventually something happened and everyone got access to the money on the ship.   A few weeks later back at home I thought my Ladbrokes account was a little large given I had withdrawn some money on board. Didn't think anything of it and just played as normal.  A good 8 months later I received a phone call from someone at Ladbrokes who explained there was a problem and I owed them money.  Apparently the internet did not work very well at sea and Ladbrokes had been issuing money without actually taking it out of accounts the whole time on board.  For whatever reason this had not been reconciled properly back in the UK and nobodys account had been debited - I owed them $800.  This matched what I thought but I squeezed the guy for more info and he admitted some players had got away with 6 figures and just withdrawn it when they got home and realised the mistake.  I asked him what would happen if I didn't pay he said they would put a negative balance on the account but couldn't do much else.  I paid (because I am dumb like that) but I don't think many who owed a total of hundreds of thousands did.  Funnily enough not long after that incident there were rumours of a massive change in staff at Ladbrokes poker and the site took a new direction.  From having ppl in charge that loved poker they went to having people in charge who were clueless about poker.  To me it was a big noticeable difference  Then the market started shrinking 2007 onwards and they could not hold on even by joining the microgaming network.  Many other networks survived like boss media but Ladbrokes started messing everything up big time.

Stuff I also remember from the time

1) Ladbrokes were seriously considering taking US players for poker only in the middle of 2006 then the UIGEA hit in October and put a stop to that.

2) The race horse "laddies poker"

3) Paul Jackson absolutely crushing MTTs on there when they first opened

4) Some Geordie guy folding AA pre on the bubble in the 2nd cruise and telling everyone about it constantly.

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6BzGRm_pm0

Great post. Can I add, as a tribute to the late great Fish this as 6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqKLHKs-oc

[tikay]

Laddies used to have $1.50/$3 NL tables, and a Swedish kid I became good friends with (leecz000r) was making $30k a month, which is just ridiculous.

Yeah I remember that guy!  He was crazy, had a really wild style and got some big value out of thin holdings with it.

Warning very tl dr

I first played Ladbrokes poker in 2002 when late night poker was all the rage on TV.  There were about 400 players max on at peak times and no MTTs at all.  They had a daily promotion where the highest hand dealt got $500.  No rakeback.  Roy "the boy" Brindley was the sponsored pro and a scary looking player called the_salmon sat at $50/100 fixed limit tables with $10,000.  At the time that seemed insane to me and I wondered what sort of mug would dare take him on.  The memory is a little hazy, $50/100 might have come in 2003 but Ladbrokes had big fixed limit tables quite early.  Every other player appeared to be from somewhere called "linkoping".

The site from 03-07 had a community feel like no other.  Ladbrokes helped it with the player profiles etc but there was something unique about the site as a standalone. Everyone from that time who tried online poker - their first experience was Ladbrokes (for me it was the one place I decided wouldn't rip me off if I won or deal dodgy cards).  I went on both the first two cruises (first one around the med second one the carribean) which were equally as amazing as each other and a dream come true for me to qualify for them both.  On the first I met some killer players at the time like pokergirl, the_salmon and Dared (wtf happened to that guy?)  I also met Adam "square7" Lee who I had talked to online a few times before  He was a real pro gambler, RIP.  On the second I played a wild cash game on the first night with a few scandis and the man himself tikay.  I remember one hand where tikay limped UTG and I raised AQs, a wild scandi who called pretty much anything flatted it but when it got back to tikay he went all in for approx. $800 (we were playing $1/2).  I folded and the Scandinavian called, tikay proudly showed me AJ (which won the pot) like it was the nuts and I wanted to spew.

Anyway I don't mean to ramble but there was an interesting incident on the 2nd cruise which for me started the downfall of Ladbrokes poker.  At the time I felt the staff in charge (who I had met on the events) were all knowledgeable etc about poker and really wanted to grow the game.  On the 2nd cruise Ladbrokes tried to implement a system where ppl could load up their Ladbrokes poker accounts before they left for Miami with money and take it out on board.  Great so I loaded mine up as did everyone else.  When we were at sea the action was wild, stacks of $20k at $1/2 and huge PLO games running etc.  The staff seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the withdrawals for whatever reason with huge queues.  Eventually something happened and everyone got access to the money on the ship.   A few weeks later back at home I thought my Ladbrokes account was a little large given I had withdrawn some money on board. Didn't think anything of it and just played as normal.  A good 8 months later I received a phone call from someone at Ladbrokes who explained there was a problem and I owed them money.  Apparently the internet did not work very well at sea and Ladbrokes had been issuing money without actually taking it out of accounts the whole time on board.  For whatever reason this had not been reconciled properly back in the UK and nobodys account had been debited - I owed them $800.  This matched what I thought but I squeezed the guy for more info and he admitted some players had got away with 6 figures and just withdrawn it when they got home and realised the mistake.  I asked him what would happen if I didn't pay he said they would put a negative balance on the account but couldn't do much else.  I paid (because I am dumb like that) but I don't think many who owed a total of hundreds of thousands did.  Funnily enough not long after that incident there were rumours of a massive change in staff at Ladbrokes poker and the site took a new direction.  From having ppl in charge that loved poker they went to having people in charge who were clueless about poker.  To me it was a big noticeable difference  Then the market started shrinking 2007 onwards and they could not hold on even by joining the microgaming network.  Many other networks survived like boss media but Ladbrokes started messing everything up big time.

Stuff I also remember from the time

1) Ladbrokes were seriously considering taking US players for poker only in the middle of 2006 then the UIGEA hit in October and put a stop to that.

2) The race horse "laddies poker"

3) Paul Jackson absolutely crushing MTTs on there when they first opened

4) Some Geordie guy folding AA pre on the bubble in the 2nd cruise and telling everyone about it constantly.

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6BzGRm_pm0

I remember that well.

It was a $1 $2 game, & a young Scandi plonked his cock on the table, in the form of $30,000, & a good bit of attitude to go with it, shooting his mouth.

I just decided to wait for something playable & test him. A-J was plenty, I would have done it with less actually. He got the lip on after that & left.

Do you remember that storm, on the first night? Jeez, that was quite something.  

The Cash Game TD was Megs, formerly of The Merrion Club, & during dinner one night on the Cruise, Roy Brindley proposed to her, slipped a ring on her finger & everything, the big daft soppy sod.

[SuperJez]

Had a read of this thread again, a bit of nostalgia is always good even if it does mean you are an online poker dinosaur

It was a lovely bit of software, too (by the then standards) smooth as silk & very reliable.

Yes it really was good the 03-09 version of the microgaming poker client.  Not quite up to stars and ftp's standards but nevertheless for the euro sites it was the best.  Very fast with crisp graphics and sounds.  As fun4fraser says the large chat box at the side was great for community spirit.  A lot of ppl railing friends etc.  An ex boss media skin manager told me having a good client/interface as a poker site is incredibly hard.  Stars got that spot on and the rest mostly struggled.  Microgaming (and Tribeca) got it right as well and I could never understand when they updated to the newer poorer version of the software.  Like all these things I suspect it was done to cut costs.

story about Joe Hachem,...its true he did play there under the alias KAIKEY but he was constantly foul mouthed in the chat box and had  actually been banned for about a year but as soon as he won the WSOP main event  Ladbrokes claimed him as their own player

Yeah! I remember KAIKEY aka Joe Hachem playing (quite big, $10/20 NL before the wsop win from memory).  Never knew about the ban, lol.

Personally i think ladbrokes need to totally change their business model.  They prove every time they release their latest set of results that any part of their business which requires skill to price up they don't make money at.

Yes arbboy I think you are right and your post is a great idea.  Like you say they are nowhere near as successful in the recreational punter market as Paddy Power and Bet365 are.  I have a ton more respect on a professional level for PP/365 as well.  I agree with what you say that they will never catch up.  I mean just look at their TV adverts - they are basically begging for a specific type of punter ("mug") to come play with them.  Far prefer Ray Winstones for 365 or Paddys humour.

Your idea of turning their sports section into a pinnacle type offer is interesting.  Honestly I think it could work as you describe.  I consider pinnacle sports the biggest loss by far to the UK gambling market as a result of the new legislation here.  Financially it must be a close call.  Pinnacle spent nothing on advertising, nothing on affiliates and nothing on free bets/bonuses/marketing.  Everything went into the line setting.  The new 15% POC tax was enough to make it no longer viable to serve the UK market sadly for them but perhaps it could be done.  Pinnacle represent what a bookie should be, welcoming all action on their lines and taking huge bets from anybody.  Never closing accounts or even limiting them.  Funnily enough almost all my "high street" bookie accounts are closed/severely limited but at Pinnacle I was down thousands I am not ashamed to admit.

Ironically now Ladbrokes is spending time and money on its exchange and Betfair is trying to become a sportsbook

Lol yeah, remember the betfair of 2003?  So anti bookmaker and customer friendly.  How times change.

I really think that Sky Poker has a great opportunity to replicate The Ladbrokes days and community feel ,I'm just surprised they haven't pushed on with Channel 861 given the great Sky TV Platform , still I'm sure senior management have their  reasons which are probably financial

Agree with this, I mean poker is never going to be the same as during the boom years but still I think you are right, Sky could definitely generate the same kind of community feel.  I think this forum helps bring UK players together massively as well.

Anyone remember that old TV show poker night live it was called maybe?  Showed STTs etc on some random channel.  With some guy called Axeman commentating along with a bird?  There was a poker TV channel as well on sky at one point wasn't there, Barney boatman homegames etc.

A lot of "local" sites opened, too, think Expekt.com became the fashionable place for many Scandies at the time. Guess they all ended up on 'Stars eventually.

Unrelated, but I saw that  I-poker are merging - or re-merging -  their two player pools. As you were, then, as the sites all suddenly realise the value of recreational players.

Expekt ran huge rake races and attracted the high volume cash players.  NoIQ did as well but they drew the wrath of ipoker and got kicked off for doing the same as Expekt who were allowed to stay (Expekt had a sportsbook to attract fish with though).  Everyone did end up at Stars eventually but there is not a single company out there who was as customer focused as the old Scheinberg owned PokerStars.  Sure it cost money to play there (lower rewards unless you made SNE etc) but every single thing they did no matter what the cost to them always put the players first.  I cant think of another company that treats its customers that well, perhaps BMW.

As for the recreational players I think AlunB is totally right when he says its just about stopping the drain.  The sites pretend the changes are to the benefit of everyone when they introduce "rec friendly" ideas (like lowering rakeback and no find player tool).  All they are really doing is increasing their bottom line and trying to make the money circulate a bit more + have a higher yield at the same time.  There are not armies of rec players out there just waiting for the right site to spring up before they deposit, these changes will not increase the player base in that way. 

As far as Unibet are concerned they are completely hypocritical on that front anyway.  They say bum hunting is a bad thing and try and make it impossible on the poker site yet they bum hunt to extremes on their sports site.  Your a good player?  Ok Max £1.68 on.  You are a fish?  Ok £1000 on.

Pretty sure Flushy used to have Linkoping as his location!!

Haha I remember playing against Royal_Flush on the old Tribeca tables network back in 2004 kinda time (skins VC, paddy power, racing post poker etc).  Now that was a hilarious network to win money on I know a lot of the old timers on here will love it like I did.  Players like Corrie, Raistlin, JammyJo (who I met one time I think and was hilarious online when he went on mega tilt) GeeForce etc.  Christ the action on there was immense.  Some ridiculous things like before they updated the software every MTT over 36 runners paid 18 places.  You could short buy after getting stacked on the cash games.  Like if you were playing $2/4NL you could sit with a score.  Just so lol and degen.  There was a "lobby chat" area where they held quizzes (I just trolled it) and they ran a 10c rebuy in the early afternoons.  Sadly it was bought over by Playtech who merged it into their ipoker software and ordered the Tribeca software destroyed as part of the deal.  Maybe a good thing as I heard strong rumours that Tribeca had been cracked in some way just before the end anyway.

Can I add, as a tribute to the late great Fish this as 6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqKLHKs-oc

What a legend, very glad I got to meet the Fish on that cruise.  He came up to me and exhaled into his shoe after drawing on a cigarette which he then placed on a table.  It just sat there smouldering with smoke pouring out of it and he asked me "Whats that?" I said dunno and he replied "An Iraqi Soldier"

I remember that well.

It was a $1 $2 game, & a young Scandi plonked his cock on the table, in the form of $30,000, & a good bit of attitude to go with it, shooting his mouth.

I just decided to wait for something playable & test him. A-J was plenty, I would have done it with less actually. He got the lip on after that & left.

Do you remember that storm, on the first night? Jeez, that was quite something.   

Haha yeah, that guy was a real product of the poker boom.  Great banter the games on that cruise.  The storm on the first night was crazy.  I remember everyone getting worked up about it and a dealer throwing up over a player at the table!.

[SuperJez]

Tribeca Tables (drool)



2003-09 Style Microgaming Software running the Ladbrokes client

Click to see full-size image.

Another good old now defunct network - Pre upgrade Cryptologic poker (I remember The_Twin as a very good player)



Anyone remember going round collecting £5 an hour to play at all the crypto skins back in the day?  totalbet, interpoker, William hill, ritz club etc

[tikay]

Slightly off topic, but Amaya released their 2nd Quarter results yesterday.


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amaya-reports-second-quarter-2015-results-521727711.html

[tikay]

....and Full Tilt introduce a new, what they describe as "recreational rewards programme".


http://www.gamingintelligence.com/business/33521-full-tilt-introduces-new-recreational-rewards-program

[SuperJez]

....and Full Tilt introduce a new, what they describe as "recreational rewards programme".


http://www.gamingintelligence.com/business/33521-full-tilt-introduces-new-recreational-rewards-program

Which seems to be a large cut for high volume players (one reg on 2+2 states that the new "edge prime" level gives lower rb than on stars.

Coupled with the 2.5% currency exchange fee (and attempts to stop deposits into GBP on stars being converted and transferred) they really are hammering the costs on the players and being hoovers these days.  I mean I am all for stopping table selection, allowing name changes and forbidding all software but I do think high volume players should be fairly rewarded and sites shouldn't rip off ppl via exchange rate fees etc.  Just a money grab and fully expect FTP's numbers to continue to decline.

[Whollyflush]

Cut my teeth in my eary years around 06-07 on Ladbrokes and it was a simple and clean piece of software