Tourney Hand

[Woodsey]

I seem to be getting sucked out alot at the moment, I check raised here to get max pay off but am clearly going to get a call when I see what he has. Do you think I am better off betting out on the flop to take the pot there and then and to minimize the chances of getting unlucky to a call with the check raise? I suppose its the old risk v reward situation. I'm Andr4w


PokerStars Game #7152936534: Tournament #36191874, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/11/24 - 08:35:40 (ET)
Table '36191874 44' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Minimuh69 (2070 in chips)
Seat 2: troutbo (10350 in chips)
Seat 3: psweet (5140 in chips)
Seat 4: parkseat (2872 in chips)
Seat 5: astreintes (5745 in chips)
Seat 6: Andr4w (4439 in chips)
Seat 7: BaD_kRuStY (21268 in chips)
Seat 8: V_Beethoven (10360 in chips)
Seat 9: BMFSOB2006 (12655 in chips)
psweet: posts small blind 100
parkseat: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Andr4w [As ]
astreintes: folds
Andr4w: raises 400 to 600
BaD_kRuStY: raises 400 to 1000
V_Beethoven: folds
BMFSOB2006: folds
Minimuh69: folds
troutbo: folds
psweet: calls 900
parkseat: folds
Andr4w: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [ ]
psweet: checks
Andr4w: checks
BaD_kRuStY: bets 2500
psweet: folds
Andr4w: raises 939 to 3439 and is all-in
BaD_kRuStY: calls 939
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Andr4w: shows [As ] (a pair of Queens)
BaD_kRuStY: shows [ Ah] (a pair of Kings)
BaD_kRuStY collected 10078 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10078 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: Minimuh69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: troutbo (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: psweet (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: parkseat (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: astreintes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Andr4w showed [As ] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 7: BaD_kRuStY showed [ Ah] and won (10078) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: V_Beethoven folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: BMFSOB2006 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[matt674]

I check raised here to get max pay off but am clearly going to get a call when I see what he has. Do you think I am better off betting out on the flop to take the pot there and then and to minimize the chances of getting unlucky to a call with the check raise?

except in this instance you didnt really check raise as your opponent has virtually set you all in with the bet on the flop, your check raise is never going to get him to pass for the small amount of chips in your reraise.

To be honest with the board being as scary as it is i think on this occasion you are better off betting the flop to take it there and then, possible straight on board with flush draw - by checkraising you are giving him the chance to take a free card and hit his draw.

True - when the money goes in you are favourite but then to be honest you got lucky to outdraw your opponent on the flop in the first place, swings and roundabouts.

[boldie]

I check raised here to get max pay off but am clearly going to get a call when I see what he has. Do you think I am better off betting out on the flop to take the pot there and then and to minimize the chances of getting unlucky to a call with the check raise?

except in this instance you didnt really check raise as your opponent has virtually set you all in with the bet on the flop, your check raise is never going to get him to pass for the small amount of chips in your reraise.

To be honest with the board being as scary as it is i think on this occasion you are better off betting the flop to take it there and then, possible straight on board with flush draw - by checkraising you are giving him the chance to take a free card and hit his draw.

True - when the money goes in you are favourite but then to be honest you got lucky to outdraw your opponent on the flop in the first place, swings and roundabouts.

I agree..with a hand like that on that board and with this action I would lead out on the flop. you tried to be clever by check raising it. sometimes being clever is great..most of the time just betting when you have something is the way to go. If you had stuck in a sizeable bet on that flop he probably would have folded.
Admittedly you were unlucky when the King hit but you gave him the chance to hit that when you decided to check raise.

[matt674]

You also have to ask the question as well "what does my opponent hold?". You are UTG+1 and have raised 2xbb, the next person to speak (who happens to be the chip leader as well) minimum reraises. Given that there are still 6 people left to speak plus the original raiser what hand range would you put him on to make that move? And how much of that range does your AQ o/s beat?

(though only you were at the table and know how he accumulated the chips in the first place).

[Highstack]

1) In a full handed game I am not raising preflop with AQ in ep.

2) Postflop I lead with TpTk on that board.

That said of course you were unlucky here and if your opponents hand was face up, you would readily take the option of getting his stack in the middle.

[byronkincaid]

1) In a full handed game I am not raising preflop with AQ in ep.

why?

[Highstack]

For the very reason that it plays poorly against AK, which is what happened here, even though he out-flpped his  opponent.

AQ is a nice hand in position. In ep it is tough to play. I rarely advocate limping, but I think that it is essential here. You can easily pass the hand to strength.

[Woodsey]

I check raised here to get max pay off but am clearly going to get a call when I see what he has. Do you think I am better off betting out on the flop to take the pot there and then and to minimize the chances of getting unlucky to a call with the check raise?

except in this instance you didnt really check raise as your opponent has virtually set you all in with the bet on the flop, your check raise is never going to get him to pass for the small amount of chips in your reraise.

To be honest with the board being as scary as it is i think on this occasion you are better off betting the flop to take it there and then, possible straight on board with flush draw - by checkraising you are giving him the chance to take a free card and hit his draw.

True - when the money goes in you are favourite but then to be honest you got lucky to outdraw your opponent on the flop in the first place, swings and roundabouts.

Fair enough, I was just hoping to get a bit more money in the pot before I went allin, so it was not a true check raise. I think the real question is (Assuming he doesn't have AA or KK) do I take the risk to win more chips considering I had about half the average at this point? It sounds like most of you would bet on the flop which I do much of the time to be fair.

[Woodsey]

For the very reason that it plays poorly against AK, which is what happened here, even though he out-flpped his  opponent.

AQ is a nice hand in position. In ep it is tough to play. I rarely advocate limping, but I think that it is essential here. You can easily pass the hand to strength.

With a min reraise I'm definately going to see a flop and try and catch it unless I know the guy is a rock. If he has AA or KK so be it, an A high flop would be more tricky of course.

[byronkincaid]

For the very reason that it plays poorly against AK, which is what happened here, even though he out-flpped his  opponent.

AQ is a nice hand in position. In ep it is tough to play. I rarely advocate limping, but I think that it is essential here. You can easily pass the hand to strength.

so you're only raising what JJ+ and AK then?

[Highstack]

For the very reason that it plays poorly against AK, which is what happened here, even though he out-flpped his  opponent.

AQ is a nice hand in position. In ep it is tough to play. I rarely advocate limping, but I think that it is essential here. You can easily pass the hand to strength.

so you're only raising what JJ+ and AK then?

From ep, that's pretty much it mate, although I would prefer to throw a few in the mix with hands like 86s rather than AQo. The reason is that if you can connect wit hbad cards after an earl;y raise then your hand is more disguised. If you don't flop it well, then it is easy to release. If AQ walks into AK, how do you proceed when the flop is A high? With those stacks and 1k invested each already prelop, you are going to find yourself dominated and committed and likely eliminated.

[boldie]

For the very reason that it plays poorly against AK, which is what happened here, even though he out-flpped his  opponent.

AQ is a nice hand in position. In ep it is tough to play. I rarely advocate limping, but I think that it is essential here. You can easily pass the hand to strength.

so you're only raising what JJ+ and AK then?

From ep, that's pretty much it mate, although I would prefer to throw a few in the mix with hands like 86s rather than AQo. The reason is that if you can connect wit hbad cards after an earl;y raise then your hand is more disguised. If you don't flop it well, then it is easy to release. If AQ walks into AK, how do you proceed when the flop is A high? With those stacks and 1k invested each already prelop, you are going to find yourself dominated and committed and likely eliminated.

I tend to agree. I much prefer seeing 86 87 etc. sooted than AQ AJ from early position when it comes to raising with a hand. AQ and AJ can lead you into seriously problems.

[The_Diamond]

I would open push on the flop. It's a draw heavy board and a check raise with these stacks is useless because the pot is nearly the size of your chip-stack