Can something be done?

[tikay]

I will tell you what partly causes this problem. Some folks genuinely - really - don't realise, understand, or accept, that it's wrong. When I confronted Mr Cheat, publically, he could not understand my gripe. "But he's my mate, we swapped 10%, me, him, & 3 others never "play" against each other, we never have".

So you see, he did not deny it, he openly admitted it - "what's the problem?". And that's the problem. Not easy to solve, particularly when players come from different ethnic backgrounds, we don't understand their culture, & they don't understand ours.

Only strong TD-ing can solve it. So, in the UK, at any rate, it will never be solved.

[AllInKev]

Whenever im playing against a good mate in a tourny, i want to take them out more than anyone else!

[MANTIS01]

I play hard and fair against everyone....except Mrs. Mantis. When the table draw puts us at the same table I KNOW I will have a different attitude if we meet in a pot. How could I possibly change that mentality?

Now me and Bambis (Mrs. Mantis) have an understanding that we will treat each other like just another player at the table and I like this attitude. We both bet and raise into each other if we think we have the best hand and we don't mind knocking each other out. But I wont bluff her...if I have nothing I check.

As much as I love the game and fair-play I am involved in a much bigger game with the other half. We play the game of life together...and this is a MUCH bigger and more serious game than the one you play at the felt. Poker is just a game within a game and it's rules are insignificant in comparison. If by avoiding confrontation with each other and not bluffing each other we both make the money then that suits me just fine. I am very happy with my ethics with regard to this.

The thing is...if I can be less ruthless with Mrs. Mantis then I find it inconsistent to be critical of the lack of ruthlessness between others. So I wont. It doesn't really bother me much at all really.

I see weakness in people who do it and that makes me think I have an advantage...and my weakness is Mrs. Mantis

[AlexMartin]

I play hard and fair against everyone....except Mrs. Mantis. When the table draw puts us at the same table I KNOW I will have a different attitude if we meet in a pot. How could I possibly change that mentality?

Now me and Bambis (Mrs. Mantis) have an understanding that we will treat each other like just another player at the table and I like this attitude. We both bet and raise into each other if we think we have the best hand and we don't mind knocking each other out. But I wont bluff her...if I have nothing I check.

As much as I love the game and fair-play I am involved in a much bigger game with the other half. We play the game of life together...and this is a MUCH bigger and more serious game than the one you play at the felt. Poker is just a game within a game and it's rules are insignificant in comparison. If by avoiding confrontation with each other and not bluffing each other we both make the money then that suits me just fine. I am very happy with my ethics with regard to this.

The thing is...if I can be less ruthless with Mrs. Mantis then I find it inconsistent to be critical of the lack of ruthlessness between others. So I wont. It doesn't really bother me much at all really.

I see weakness in people who do it and that makes me think I have an advantage...and my weakness is Mrs. Mantis

Snoopy knocked out Danafish in the Vic last week. Chip dumping i think.

[MANTIS01]

Snoopy knocked out Danafish in the Vic last week. Chip dumping i think.

Chick dumping more like. The extra washing-up, additional household chores and complete obliteration of the brownie point bank mean this is a decidely -EV play.

[portfolio]

plenty  can  , and should,be done to stop this cancerous  spread that is riddling poker !

here are my 5 steps that i take   

1   confront the cheating players directly immediately after the  showdown

this clearly lets you establish wether it was intentional etc.
it also lets them know you are aware of the soft play/collusion, and lets them know its wholly unnacceptable,  and  why.

2  ask the dealer  what action they are going to take

they should be the first point of corrective action,though recently,most dealers aare either blissfully unaware, or now players themselves and  do it too  !!

3 ask for a ruling

getting a supervisor/td to rule on the coup


its critical that they are aware of what the culprits are up too.

4   be prepared to stand up  and leave the table

tell the cheats why you wont continue to fund them.


5  enforce your values on return to same casino

its amazing how you will have slowed/stopped the villians.



there are many scenarios where this play can be used against them to get more chips,so there are two sides to the coin.


giving up is just simply not an option in my opinion.


ps whilst the broadway insists on  NOT making all players in coup showing down cards in tornaments,they are playing into the colluders hands.

[dealerFROMhell]

Hang on a minute, before you all get on your pedestals...

It's easy...

If the TD hasn't seen it, all you have to do is, if you have the balls to confront the player at the table (which not many poker players do), call the TD over and ask him what he's going to do about it.

If he doesn't do a thing about it, you should have the sense of principle never to play there again.

[snoopy1239]

I play hard and fair against everyone....except Mrs. Mantis. When the table draw puts us at the same table I KNOW I will have a different attitude if we meet in a pot. How could I possibly change that mentality?

Now me and Bambis (Mrs. Mantis) have an understanding that we will treat each other like just another player at the table and I like this attitude. We both bet and raise into each other if we think we have the best hand and we don't mind knocking each other out. But I wont bluff her...if I have nothing I check.

As much as I love the game and fair-play I am involved in a much bigger game with the other half. We play the game of life together...and this is a MUCH bigger and more serious game than the one you play at the felt. Poker is just a game within a game and it's rules are insignificant in comparison. If by avoiding confrontation with each other and not bluffing each other we both make the money then that suits me just fine. I am very happy with my ethics with regard to this.

The thing is...if I can be less ruthless with Mrs. Mantis then I find it inconsistent to be critical of the lack of ruthlessness between others. So I wont. It doesn't really bother me much at all really.

I see weakness in people who do it and that makes me think I have an advantage...and my weakness is Mrs. Mantis

Snoopy knocked out Danafish in the Vic last week. Chip dumping i think.

The sofa's filthy.

[Nick Peters]

First and foremost..CALL FOR A RULING.

There are too many players that try to sort things out themselves and in some cases draw the wrong conclusion.

There have been occassions when, with the TD present, 2 players check down a hand to eliminate a player and at showdown the last player to act has the nuts. When confronted with the question,"why didn't you make a bet?" the response has been...
"I went blind and didn't look at my cards."  (yeah, that's convenient)

Another scenario, is too many Card-rooms don't insist on SHOWDOWNS whenever both players have checked the river or when a bet is called on the end.  If this is not enforced, this also can lead to sharp practise.

Of course there are still many card-rooms that don't have strong direction from the card-room. Too many casinos' still view the competition as, well let's get it over and done with so the croupier can be put on roulette or blackjack. Usually these are the ones where the players tend to give up on a ruling an sort it out in the car park.

[snoopy1239]

In my experience, the Tournament Director often favours the regular, especially if he didn't see it or is fobbed off with an excuse. There's also the added problem of insulting the regular, and how often do you actually get backed by the rest of the table in these situations? For me, solving the problem shouldn't be in the hands of the player, instead Tournament Directors should make it perfectly clear to both players and dealers that such acts of collusion are considered cheating, are unacceptable and will be punished forthwith. I don't think I've ever heard any TD say that, at any level.

[Longy]

This is cheating whatever way you look at it and to be honest im amazed by the fact that some people on here are of the attitude we should just ignore it unless its some kind of big buyin event.

I use to play at Notts Gala and as Snoops & Tikay alluded to it wasn't the cleanest game in the world, but on the one occasion something of this ilk happened on my table, when i spoke out I actually got a ruling in my favour (a played had exposed a card delibritley IMO to his mate who was still in the hand, which was  on an all spade board when he was all in with his mate playing a dry side pot and no one apart from me spoke out I was amazed everyone else just sat there and said nothing).

As has been said by standing up for ourselves, asking for rulings etc can only help the situation and at least make players aware that is cheating and will not be tolerated by all.