DTD £75FO decision

[Longy]

Can someone please rob all of Mantis's bankroll and reset his post count to zero please.

[kinboshi]

I like the limp call line with AK.

On a note related to the tangent, I wish people (namely paulhouk03) were given the benefit of the doubt with regard to increasing their post count. Slam them if and when they make a suspiciously timed staking post but not before.

It's not as if everything kinboshi posts is a quality well thought out contribution, or my own for that matter. (most of what I post is utter tosch) Maybe he just wants to contribute to the forum, don't know how long that's going to be the case if every one of his posts is scrutinized for legitimacy.

tank - I posted about him posting to increase his post count as we have been deleting lots of inane two-word posts, posted obviously to increase his post count and nothing else.  When he actually writes a proper post he actually does have something to contribute.

Paul making a lot of two word posts may be a fact (to use the parlance of the day).

You assigning his motive for doing so as to increase his post count and nothing more is certainly not a fact, it is pure conjecture and I assume that someone of your intelligence must be able to see that.

When he gets slammed for the lack of content in his posts, it reeks of bullying to me, and makes me slightly uncomfortable. Now it's the mods joining in too, I want to say my piece about this.

If he is just trying to increase his post count to get to 300, and this is pissing the members off, then you deleting his posts here and there just prolongs the whole process and makes no sense whatsoever from the point of view of appeasing members. I might understand a policy of warning then ban for making lots of small posts, might not agree with it but at least it would make more sense.

It's not paul I'm worried about, he seems to have a thick enough skin. It's the people who are just lurking on blonde, potential new members and valuable contributors, some of whom may be new to poker, maybe some are dyslexic, or English isn't their native language. They're going to get discouraged from making a post if the general atmosphere is that all new members posts are assesed for content.
It makes blonde look clique and I hate that. Kinboshi and tank et al, can post pisch, but no-one under 300 posts can. They MUST be after a quick stake.

So this is just a general appeal to those who consider themselves the last bastions of common sense. If you think a poster is posting a lot of tosh to qualify for staking eligibility, then if and when that day comes, don't fooking stake them. It's your money and your choice.
To the mods... BAN or leave the fook alone. Deleting half their posts is a waste of your time and prolongs the period whereby members are getting pissed off at the offending poster.

Have to agree with this.

It also makes it more difficult to assess whether someone is a genuine poster if all of their crap posts are deleted.

If someone is asking for a stake the first thing I do is check their recent posts. If they all look ok because the mods have deleted the shit ones I am getting false info on the person.

If I can see loads of 2 word posts I know exactly what I am letting myself in for.

Just another thought to add to Tank's.

Good posts - both Tank and MrPie.  Points taken on board and I'm sure they'll be discussed.

[AlexMartin]

This is pretty close between shoving and folding, i would shove but it is pretty close to neutral equity. Limping is of course really bad.

To pick up a few point from earlier in the thread

I would prefer to jam virtually any 2 on the button rather than shove KQ into 7 players, my preference is to fold pre. 

Definetly fold now.

really?

Umm, I think so, although the 400 extra for ante's may sway me on reflection... Close imo

Chipprince is right here Alex, shoving 23o from the button has about the same expectation as shoving kq from utg cEV wise given standard calling ranges. In fact in live poker shoving 23o is probably better cos you get a lot of bad nits. Whereas shoving kq changes little in equity whether people are tight or not, due to having to push through so many people.

1st time in ages but i disagree mate. in todays game i think people are a lot more positionally aware re shoving and effective calling ranges imo. also as mantis points out we let the blinds go through us and we are in a much worse spot when antes are in play. shove still looks strong and folds out stuff that would call normally LP/btn/blind coups, positional effect of our shove means even smart players in MP are reluctant to call/iso properly because of ppl still to act. I dont think its close, shove >>>>> wait for button.

[Longy]

This is pretty close between shoving and folding, i would shove but it is pretty close to neutral equity. Limping is of course really bad.

To pick up a few point from earlier in the thread

I would prefer to jam virtually any 2 on the button rather than shove KQ into 7 players, my preference is to fold pre. 

Definetly fold now.

really?

Umm, I think so, although the 400 extra for ante's may sway me on reflection... Close imo

Chipprince is right here Alex, shoving 23o from the button has about the same expectation as shoving kq from utg cEV wise given standard calling ranges. In fact in live poker shoving 23o is probably better cos you get a lot of bad nits. Whereas shoving kq changes little in equity whether people are tight or not, due to having to push through so many people.

1st time in ages but i disagree mate. in todays game i think people are a lot more positionally aware re shoving and effective calling ranges imo. also as mantis points out we let the blinds go through us and we are in a much worse spot when antes are in play. shove still looks strong and folds out stuff that would call normally LP/btn/blind coups, positional effect of our shove means even smart players in MP are reluctant to call/iso properly because of ppl still to act. I dont think its close, shove >>>>> wait for button.

I should have added in vacuum with same chipstacks, that shoving 11bb from the button with 23o is approximately the same as shoving kqo 7 handed from utg. Taking into account wider calling ranges from the blinds. It is about neutral equity at 16% calliing ranges 23o from the button, cEV wise.

[thetank]

Can someone please rob all of Mantis's bankroll and reset his post count to zero please.

 








That is to say, I enjoyed this post, I appreciated the wit on a number of levels.

[thetank]

1st time in ages but i disagree mate. in todays game i think people are a lot more positionally aware re shoving and effective calling ranges imo. also as mantis points out we let the blinds go through us and we are in a much worse spot when antes are in play. shove still looks strong and folds out stuff that would call normally LP/btn/blind coups, positional effect of our shove means even smart players in MP are reluctant to call/iso properly because of ppl still to act. I dont think its close, shove >>>>> wait for button.

I disagree with that.

After eating the blinds and antes in the next few hands, we're shoving ~9 bigs rather than shoving ~11 bigs.
While obviously we have slighlty less fold equity, I don't think it's accurate to categorize it as being in a much worse spot.

Completely different story if we have 7 bigs UTG obv.

[david3103]

whew - I generated a 4 page thread! (albeit only 50% of the posts are actually analysing the hand....)

To summarise

shove>fold>flat
and as played, fold to the shove and raise

message received, let's see if it sinks in.

My doubts arose because of the outcome, and the fact that a call would have bumped me up to something around average stack...

anyways

Thanks to all for their advice and comments

i'm off to draft a post about raising 72 from the button in the first level of a 100BB tourney..

[MANTIS01]

1st time in ages but i disagree mate. in todays game i think people are a lot more positionally aware re shoving and effective calling ranges imo. also as mantis points out we let the blinds go through us and we are in a much worse spot when antes are in play. shove still looks strong and folds out stuff that would call normally LP/btn/blind coups, positional effect of our shove means even smart players in MP are reluctant to call/iso properly because of ppl still to act. I dont think its close, shove >>>>> wait for button.

I disagree with that.

After eating the blinds and antes in the next few hands, we're shoving ~9 bigs rather than shoving ~11 bigs.
While obviously we have slighlty less fold equity, I don't think it's accurate to categorize it as being in a much worse spot.

Completely different story if we have 7 bigs UTG obv.

It's not a spot that's much worse...but we'd be shoving 9 bb's to win 11 bb's, whereas here we're shoving 11 bb's to win 13 bb's. So if it ain't any better why opt for that 2nd choice?

Mantis poker philosophy is so feckin intricate it gives me a headache to cut posts this short tbh.

[thetank]

Coz pushing KQ UTG is tez.

[MANTIS01]

Coz pushing KQ UTG is tez.

LoL

See the way I see things if you guys were quicker on the uptake my explanations wouldn't have to be so fecking long would they? However, on this occasion I find it difficult to mount a defence against tez so we'll have to call it a draw.

[thetank]

I'll take it.

[MANTIS01]

I'll take it.

OK. But you can't use tez again now.