The dreaded overbet

[Pyso]

We’re at DTD on the 50p/£1 cash tables and the play is pretty tight and passive, so much so that even I have a relatively loose image. I have been using position to take down pots that my cards don’t really warrant.

My stack is £250. Only one player has me covered - the guy to my immediate left. He is a decent thinking player and I would really rather be on his left but unfortunately no seat has opened up giving me the chance to move.

For this hand I am on the button with

There is an EP raise to £4 and one caller. Now, I know I can and maybe should raise here but on a table that loves to call I will be inflating the pot with a marginal holding when I get the expected 4 callers. I elect to call and hopefully use my positional advantage to play out the hand from the flop onwards. I can inflate the pot should the circumstances warrant it.

Anyway, the small blind (decent player who has me covered remember) calls and so does the BB.

We are five handed with £20 in the pot.

Flop is 

SB checks, so does everyone else. At these tables the ace is always a scare card as plenty of people play any old bullet. I have middle pair and elect to take the free card.

Turn is 

The SB leads out for £18.

Interesting. Folded to me and I flat with my two pair. Perhaps I can and should raise here but for some reason my hand feels vulnerable. I am happy to re-evaluate on the river.

River is

Pot is £56

He quickly bets £66.

Ok, so my hand has now been counterfeited. Any ace beats me, as does any 7.

Hands he could have - small pocket pair, suited connectors that include a 7. Pocket sevens (although less likely and would he lead out with a set here?), a suited ace that is now expecting a chop with the king playing, a hand like mine, maybe even an oddly played AK..

Anyway, he immediately covers his face. He won’t look me in the eye. I take quite a while to decide what to do. I hover my chips over the line and he remains hidden behind his hands.

The overbet looks suspicious but at the same time I am not actually beating much and it doesn’t feel like he is bluffing. It seems the best I can hope for is a split pot.

So, can I find a call here?

[Longy]

Pass, I really can't see what you are beating . He has bet the turn into 5 people, this is rarely a bluff.

[kinboshi]

I pass now as well.  I don't like the call on the turn though.  Your hand was weak, and became very strong on the turn, so you want to build the pot and maximise your profit don't you?  If your hand is vulnerable do you think you're behind here, if not then why not bet to take the pot down at least?

Also, I prefer to have the aggressive players to my left, as I then have relative position on them if they bet or raise. 

[Woodsey]

The overbet to look like a bluff is such a standard young intertard play these days that you have to just fold most of the time unless you have info to indicate otherwise. I can't remember the last time I saw someone actually bluffing in this type of spot.

[MC]

Def def raise the turn.

Fold now.

[Longy]

The overbet to look like a bluff is such a standard young intertard play these days that you have to just fold most of the time unless you have info to indicate otherwise. I can't remember the last time I saw someone actually bluffing in this type of spot.

[Woodsey]

The overbet to look like a bluff is such a standard young intertard play these days that you have to just fold most of the time unless you have info to indicate otherwise. I can't remember the last time I saw someone actually bluffing in this type of spot.

He ain't a young intertard..........

[doubleup]

It seems the best I can hope for is a split pot.

Unless you think he also has K9 there aren't any split pots.  If he has a king he might well think that he can get you to fold a split pot.  I'd look him up here.  He must think that you are weak the way played and it is unlikely that he has a monster.  He could well have taken a stab at the orphan pot on the turn and as you have not shown any strength decided to take a shot on the river (where you would have expected a bit more thought before betting).

[StuartHopkin]

I think its a fold, but Im not as convinced its an easy one.

I think he turns up with KQ KJ K10 here a fair bit.

[titaniumbean]

Fwiw you dont want position on the player on your left because he'll be making less mistakes than some random. It's just a hassle that you have to factor him into more of your decisions pre flop.

Do you have no reads on him?

I wouldn't be squeezing K9s that often. Main plan is pretty much cawl hope it's multiway and flop our 100-1 shot.

I think I prob call the river and see A5o for thin value, or like 79 or 8T.


You want to try and analyse your opponents holding on all streets before you suddenly get to the river and try to see what you beat and how likely it is compared to what now beats you. Once you've put your villain on a set of hands on the turn and you're wondering about whether or not to raise the turn have a look at all the possible river cards not just the one that came in this spot and see which route gets you the most value with how you perceive he will play the different parts of his range. This is especially beneficial if the hand went to showdown because you can confirm what could and couldn't be in his range, obviously we learn nothing if he turns over quads.

[poonjoe]

Don't forget to factor in the £5.50 rake so yr risking £66 to win £50.50, or £66 to win £25.25 when its a split pot.

However some dealers forget to rake split pots so you have to factor in the dealer error margin here also.

Then again, this is offset by the opportunity to be the table captain/reserve floorperson when the hands are turned over and everyone can see its a split. Wait until the dealer starts dividing the pot then you can announce 'SPLIT POT' or 'CHOP IT UP' as if the dealer was about to pass the pot to the wrong person. The timing is difficult because you have to bark your order BEFORE another player chirps up but AFTER the dealer has begun to chop the pot. However, if you practice you can achieve a feeling of authority, everytime the pot is chopped.

[Pyso]

Thanks all for the replies.

As regards to whether I had any reads on my opponent, we had been chatting quite a bit about hands and strategy etc and it was clear he was competent. He was young and plays online but don't know if that makes him an intertard lol.

A few hands earlier he had been asking me if I was capable of laying down aces when check-raised on a scary flop. It was almost like he was setting up a future bluff. He was also going on about how he was close to his record 50p/£1 spin up and that the only way he could see himself beating it was to chip up via another deepstack (i.e. me).

He seemed a decent sort and wasn't one to pull any angles but a smarty pants bluff did seem imminent.

Having said that, the line he took in this hand on the river was a smart one because he got me 'smelling a rat'.

I made a very wary call and he snap called with quad sevens. Well played, I tap the table. Very annoyed with myself for not doing the obvious thing - FOLD...

Now I can remember thinking at the time when the seven hit the river "...don't bet too much or I can't call".

So why did I sit there until I had convinced myself otherwise? It's crap retard calls like these that are slowing down my winrate and I'm not happy.

[doubleup]

It's crap retard calls like these that are slowing down my winrate and I'm not happy.

obviously we learn nothing if he turns over quads.

[kinboshi]

He has quads, fold.

[poonjoe]

Wow what a great bet wp 77