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Author Topic: Skewed thinking?  (Read 1965 times)
Pyso
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« on: November 08, 2009, 02:55:59 AM »

Cash game at DTD, Saturday night £1/£2

I have £165, seven handed in the Big Blind with 

Limp, limp, button folds, Sb raises to £10

He has not been at the table long, has seen about 20 hands and probably played half of them. I know he is raising light. Something else I know about him - I have just seen him fold on the river to a 4 straight board when being offered about 6-1 pot odds saying he had two pair. Of course he may have had complete air in that hand, but it made me think here was a player capable of going with his read and passing when he thinks he is behind. His stack is over £400 and I assume he is winning for the evening as I noticed he set aside £200 on the table next to us before he joined our table.

Anyway, I re-raise to £35

Limpers both pass and he reluctantly calls.

Flop is       

Pot is £74

He checks quickly and so do I.

Turn is 

We look each other in the eye but I don’t learn much other than his eyes are blue like mine. He fires out a bet of £50.

I have already ruled out JJ through to AA. He could well have a smaller pair such as 88 or 99 and maybe AK or the same as me, AQ.

This bet of his looks like a steal. I feel my image is solid enough to represent tens, queens, kings or aces. If I had those hands I probably would check behind on the flop for a bit of pot control and to encourage him to bluff on the turn.

I know that I don’t have a huge amount behind but I think a shove here will get him to fold AK or AQ or a small pair. With my shove of £130 this will leave him £80 to call into a £254 pot so if we remove the £7 rake he is getting 247/80 or basically 3 to 1.

With my reads on the player, my image at the table and the maths involved have I stretched my fold equity to the limit here? I am for some reason confident that I can get him to lay down AK, AQ, A10s or an underpair. Is this fair or have I totally lost my mind?
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George2Loose
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 11:14:31 AM »

Bet flop.
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byronkincaid
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 11:40:47 AM »

Bet flop.

why?
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nirvana
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 11:49:16 AM »


Might as well be exploited on the flop as later
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George2Loose
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 12:22:50 PM »


I really don't understand why Pyso now wants to put his entire stack in with no hand on the turn with no real idea what his opponent has after re raising pre and getting the perfect flop to c-bet on.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 02:46:42 PM »

I don't think skewed is the word, more like inconsistent thinking.

Why didn't you bet the flop?

Why does he also have to be at it raising out of the sb ?
Did he raise all the other hands he's played or just call? Positionally aware?
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Pyso
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 03:29:35 PM »

On the flop I am now aware that my SPR is 1.75 to 1. If I make any bet now I'm getting committed. It is the perfect flop to c-bet as it is unlikely he has a jack. If he shoves over the top I can't call however.

I decide to check to rethink on the turn when I will get a little more info - bet size, time taken, body language etc.

When we looked at each other, although I jokingly pointed out I didn't learn much other than the colour of is eyes, he did look a little 'shifty'. The £50 bet is exactly what I would have bet in his shoes when the preflop 3-bettor shows 'weakness' on the turn.

I am now thinking what hand includes a jack here? He has been loose in the short time I have seen him, raising nearly every pot he enters and seemingly doing it either in decent position or when he is the first to open.

His range is quite wide so I suppose I have to include J,10 QJ, KJ, AJ.
Anyway, having seen him lay down a hand on the river not minutes ago and the fact that he views me as tight (has already commented on this) and that he is bound to stab at this with a marginal hand or air a fair chunk of the time, I decide that a good amount of the time, a shove here will get him to pass.

I think I got it wrong, hence the reason I am posting.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 05:15:13 PM »

So what did you want to accomplish with the 3 bet pre? What hands do you think he is raising/what he is calling with?
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Pyso
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 08:18:39 PM »

So what did you want to accomplish with the 3 bet pre? What hands do you think he is raising/what he is calling with?

I wanted to get heads up in position to begin with. I wanted the money in with likely the best hand. I think he is raising light, even from the small blind.

If I bet this flop and get called he's doing it with the exact hands I put him on or of course a Jack. My stack size is in all reality very puny so bet folding doesn't seem great when he most likely a lot of the time has nowt much.

If I had more in front of me maybe my rationale works, but I don't think it was all that clever here, in fact down right dumb really. I was so pissed off about it I went home. The fact that he snap called with KJo is completely irrelevant.
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George2Loose
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 09:47:40 PM »

If you have no manoevere post flop you're not sitting deep enough. Realistically it's better to bet/fold flop then check raising turn with air
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Rupert
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 10:59:02 PM »

well so far you've made a big mistake on every street Wink
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 01:43:46 PM »

When we looked at each other, although I jokingly pointed out I didn't learn much other than the colour of is eyes, he did look a little 'shifty'. The £50 bet is exactly what I would have bet in his shoes when the preflop 3-bettor shows 'weakness' on the turn.

Or when he realises he has a hand and needs to get some money in the pot because his check on the flop didnt induce the bet he expected.

Also as a rule of thumb I dont think you find a huge amount of people raising light from the SB let alone then calling the 3bet light.
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poonjoe
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 09:13:09 PM »

Yeh most people don't contest the blinds without good cards in cashgame right?
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 11:04:35 AM »

Yeh most people don't contest the blinds without good cards in cashgame right?

Flat call £48 because they already have £2 in the pot - Always
3 Bet OOP with junk - Not often
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GreekStein
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 11:20:25 AM »

Minraise him
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