1/1 live cash river spot

[cambridgealex]

At the vic, a fish who is playing about 350 opens UTG for 6, folds round, I call with   from the button. SB peels as well playing about £150 (same as me). SB looks late 20s, looks pretty recreational but likes to think he knows what he's doing (but probably doesn't). I'll go through my thought process on each street.

They both check a   flop. OR not the type to check overpairs at this point so I bet £13 for value/protection. SB calls pretty quickly, UTG doesn't really want to call but he does (not at all like he was trapping, more that he was confused that his AK or AQ hadnt hit and he might be beat). SB range is vwide, but I thought he'd likely not snapcall with 99 or Tx and at least think about raising. So I'm predominately putting him on 9x, smaller pairs and a plethora of draws.

The turn is  , they both check pretty quickly. I thought a strong 2nd barrel would be enough to take the pot down a lot of the time and fold out 9x hands as well as getting value from all the draws too. If SB has Tx then I thought likely continue to trap and not raise and I'll have 2outs to his stack and 4 outs ftw. I bet £35, SB called, UTG folded.

The river is  . He checks. Pot is £125ish. JQ gets there, 9x spades gets there, J9, JT. I beat all missed diamond draws and Tx hands (98 possible as well I suppose).

Questions: Is my turn barrel spewy or alright? What to do on the river?

[Whollyflush]

Little bit FPS. Its live just played solid, don't think too hard. I'd just be check giving up wih an underpair on a paired board, you have little equity to improve and can't/shouldn't  barrel light with such a hand. Your better off barrelling KQ/AdJx/ type hands (assuming you don't 3bet) which give you better equity.

Assuming he checks, check back river. Almost all pair combo's he has on this board are boats, or he has a J he never folds or betting could allow him to do something crazy with a hand like KQdd.

[GreekStein]

Little bit FPS. Its live just played solid, don't think too hard. I'd just be check giving up wih an underpair on a paired board, you have little equity to improve and can't/shouldn't  barrel light with such a hand. Your better off barrelling KQ/AdJx/ type hands (assuming you don't 3bet) which give you better equity.

Assuming he checks, check back river. Almost all pair combo's he has on this board are boats, or he has a J he never folds or betting could allow him to do something crazy with a hand like KQdd.

^^

[DMorgan]

Little bit FPS. Its live just played solid, don't think too hard. I'd just be check giving up wih an underpair on a paired board, you have little equity to improve and can't/shouldn't  barrel light with such a hand. Your better off barrelling KQ/AdJx/ type hands (assuming you don't 3bet) which give you better equity.

Assuming he checks, check back river. Almost all pair combo's he has on this board are boats, or he has a J he never folds or betting could allow him to do something crazy with a hand like KQdd.

Pretty much this

[SuuPRlim]

^^^
^^^
+1

chk back river now, you have prolly won

[titaniumbean]

Turn I don't barrel + I don't see why a live player who we think has a 9 is ever folding, that's like 2 purrrrrrs innit.


I would really really wanna do some kinda bet tiny and get paid but I probably sigh check whilst playing now we've got here like this.

[redarmi]

River is a trivial check behind I think.  A couple of hands that are worse probably call a small bet on the river but not enough and you don't want to be cry calling a check raise here.  I don't really like the bet on the turn either.  One of the benefits of your bet on the flop is that it is likely to help you get a hand with decent showdown value to the river cheaply so I would just take it. 

Another point worth bearing in mind is that you should be planning what you are doing on each street in advance so when you make the flop or turn bet you need to be aware that you are putting yourself in a tough spot on the river by inflating the pot.  For example if the river is  what do you do when he makes a £25 bet.  It is tough to fold getting 6-1 for your money or even when the the  comes what happens if he shoves or bets £50.  Again it is a tough decision that wouldn't happen if you checked behind on the turn because the pot would only be £55 so it is much easier to fold only getting 2-1 on a £50ish bet on the river.  Hope this make sense but the basic point is to plan your bets around later streets

[cambridgealex]

River is a trivial check behind I think.  A couple of hands that are worse probably call a small bet on the river but not enough and you don't want to be cry calling a check raise here.  I don't really like the bet on the turn either.  One of the benefits of your bet on the flop is that it is likely to help you get a hand with decent showdown value to the river cheaply so I would just take it. 

Another point worth bearing in mind is that you should be planning what you are doing on each street in advance so when you make the flop or turn bet you need to be aware that you are putting yourself in a tough spot on the river by inflating the pot.  For example if the river is  what do you do when he makes a £25 bet.  It is tough to fold getting 6-1 for your money or even when the the  comes what happens if he shoves or bets £50.  Again it is a tough decision that wouldn't happen if you checked behind on the turn because the pot would only be £55 so it is much easier to fold only getting 2-1 on a £50ish bet on the river.  Hope this make sense but the basic point is to plan your bets around later streets

yeh instinctively i pretty much snapped checked behind the river, but ofc 2nd guessed myself when he showed  and thought i could've got 30-50 worth or value perhaps. But yeh overall i realised that it's still a check now, ty. Good post btw, i see your point about bloating pots and making tough decisons for myself. Althought I think the river decisions you mentioned are actually pretty trivial too. He leads £25 on a river, Im snap folding. He bets 50 or shoves on the river, Im also folding.

I think it works the other way round too. Bloating pots like this actually make it possible for me to make my opponents make really tough decisions. E.g. if i'd checked behind the turn, and he snap checks a river and I realised that he has 9x or 88 or 7x, the pot is only £54 and more difficult to get him off these hands because I've checked the turn. So maybe in a different spot I could "plan for future streets" by barrelling the turn with the intention of making the pot big enough so I can 1.3x pot shove the river for example. Ppl don't mind calling off £20- £40 if they're "probably beat but..." whereas you can apply so much pressure with a £150 river bet. Even if people know you're capable of doing that, they fold on earlier streets because they don't want to face that tough decision with a marginal hand. Fwiw I know most ppl on here are online players and think that live players at these stakes don't fold. But they actually do a lot more than ppl think. Or maybe I'm just awesome. I did a bluff once.

As I'm writing this I don't think it's making much sense actually but I don't know how to phrase it. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

[redarmi]

Yes  your post makes perfect sense and I think you are right.  I think it is fine to plan to try and take it away on future streets so long as you have a plan for every scenario.