Theory - 3betting small pairs from the blinds

[cambridgealex]

Live cash. This hand occured on Friday night at DTD and sparked a debate about this.

A serial limp/caller limps from early postion, a straightforward but reasonable lag iso's. A fish and probably best spot in the game calls from the SB and we have 22 in the BB.

It is a good spot to squeeze imo. The limper is never calling a 3bet, the raiser doesn't know me to be that aggresive will fold a lot, and the fish in the SB will fold a lot too, but if he peels, it's not the worst thing by any means- we are IP with the initiative with a pair. We are 300bbs deep with the raiser and SB.

If we call, we are 100% setmining and basically going to check/fold any flop we don't flop a set on. We have no guarantee to get paid by the raiser, as his range is pretty wide and we are oop and he isnt a spaz postflop. If the SB flops top pair and we flop a set, yes we are going to get paid. But it's still hard to get stacks in 300bbs deep in a single raised pot.

Is 3betting here profitable? And if yes, how about with suited connectors?

[EvilPie]

Fold

[Rupert]

Is 3betting here profitable? And if yes, how about with suited connectors?

Well this is a pretty ridiculous question since 3 betting in a vacuum is nearly always profitable.

I think 3 betting 22 and medium+ SCs here in any cash game 300bbs deep is a pretty huge mistake especially with the fish in the pot.  I'd far rather do it with something like Q8s which isn't strong enough to call with but has a ton of equity postflop for when the fish inevitably calls us.  I think you're vastly overestimating how much the raiser will fold when he's IP 300 bbs deep.  He's either got really good implied odds or really good pot equity.

The better times to 3 bet small PPs are when an aggressive player opens the button and you think he is going to 4 bet you with a very high frequency because then you can 3 bet to induce a 4 bet to 5 bet jam.  Small PPs are very good sorts of hands to do this with since they have a fairly low calling EV preflop so there isn't much opportunity cost and when your 5 bet is called they are still 35%+ vs a typical 4b/calling range.  This is especially extremely profitable in donkaments since tourney players take 3 bets personally like you've just slaughtered their pet hamster and are all paranoid to hell.  All this said, it does take a certain breed of animal to 4 bet light and light 4 bets probably aren't happening nearly as much as people think when they're at the table and facing the 4 bet (think about when someone has 4 bet you and you think he is very likely to be bluffing but then shows you QQ+)

[Simon Galloway]

 All this said, it does take a certain breed of animal to 4 bet light and light 4 bets probably aren't happening nearly as much as people think when they're at the table and facing the 4 bet (think about when someone has 4 bet you and you think he is very likely to be bluffing but then shows you QQ+)

+plenty

In my experience in live cash, "know your customer."  If you 3bet to induce a light 4bet, make sure it's against someone that is capable of playing along with your plan.  I have seen people get fruity out of the blinds a lot.  Usually two minutes before I see them walking out the door muttering "fish/cooler/he peeled with THAT?" etc.  

I am not a fan of putting money in the pot voluntarily from the blinds (meh-nit) very often.  With small pairs, I'm always happy to set mine there.  Against a fish and a serial caller, 300bbs deep, I am abso delighted to take a  shot at it.  Throw in an "iso-raiser" who may or may not have a genuine hand, and there has to be a fair chance of stacking someone if you flop a set.  SB calls, you call, pretty sure a serial limp/caller will say "I'm priced in" as they call too, closing the action.  Now you are 4way to a flop, plenty on the table, seems ok to set mine to me.

[Mondeoman]

Id rather stick my weiner in the meat slicer down the local co-op than 3 bet 2's here.


(the meat slicers name is doris and shes about 70)

[cambridgealex]

Ok cheers guys, I'll tell the guy who did it not to do it anymore.

[kinboshi]

Id rather stick my weiner in the meat slicer down the local co-op than 3 bet 2's here.


(the meat slicers name is doris and shes about 70)

Post is useless without pics.

[SuuPRlim]

Id rather stick my weiner in the meat slicer down the local co-op than 3 bet 2's here.


(the meat slicers name is doris and shes about 70)

eloquently phrased and +1'd heartily

[SuuPRlim]

I had a similar spot once vs Keith where i decided to 3bet fold AJo

If he peels my life's terrible if he 4bets my life's terrible but when i fold i'd have lost £10 and can sit back an enjoy my apple juice

I asked him after the hand and he said he didnt hate the play but he was prolly trying to keep his customer happy

[cambridgealex]

Yes. I have some strange plans sometimes during poker hands. They seem to make some sort of sense at the time. I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve. But it's good to have my genius ideas quashed immediately so I can't do anymore harm.

[George2Loose]

Yes. I have some strange plans sometimes during poker hands. They seem to make some sort of sense at the time. I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve. But it's good to have my genius ideas quashed immediately so I can't do anymore harm.

Hey least you're trying stuff and asking your questions. Shows you're willing to learn and will be playing 200/400 in no time

[SuuPRlim]

Yes. I have some strange plans sometimes during poker hands. They seem to make some sort of sense at the time. I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve. But it's good to have my genius ideas quashed immediately so I can't do anymore harm.

Hey least you're trying stuff and asking your questions. Shows you're willing to learn and will be playing 200/400 in no time

tilt changing to YEN?

[Solaris]

3 bet and get put in a tough spot post-flop if one of those IP flats or call and watch the serial limper call and take 22 4-way to a flop....

I'd choose the latter always. I'd rather 3 bet 74s than 2's in this spot.

[SuuPRlim]

3 bet and get put in a tough spot post-flop if one of those IP flats or call and watch the serial limper call and take 22 4-way to a flop....

I'd choose the latter always. I'd rather 3 bet 74s than 2's in this spot.

problem with cash games, no1 folds to 3bets lol

[swansfc]

i just flat, no need to get fruity in this position and we won't put anymore money in the pot unless we flop a set