Am I ever winning here?

[TheSnapper]

Anyone check back the flop here? is there really any value in betting?

[SuuPRlim]

Anyone check back the flop here? is there really any value in betting?

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

[TheSnapper]

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

Assuming AK, QQ+ are 3b'ing pf ?? ??

Villains range is quite small. Maybe something like......

JJ-22,AQs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo-AJo,KQo ?? ??

so ok we can get some value from non setted pp's & KT's but thats a small % of his range and likely equal to or slightly >the amount of hands that crush us  ( 77,55,KQs,KQo )

[smashedagain]

Anyone check back the flop here? is there really any value in betting?

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

[smashedagain]

Anyone check back the flop here? is there really any value in betting?

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

not wanting to upset you (DMorgan thought i was taking the piss) but are you leveling me. all of a sudden you two are quoting str8 from my bloody book and i am starting to like your style .X   

[SuuPRlim]

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

Assuming AK, QQ+ are 3b'ing pf ?? ??

Villains range is quite small. Maybe something like......

JJ-22,AQs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo-AJo,KQo ?? ??

so ok we can get some value from non setted pp's & KT's but thats a small % of his range and likely equal to or slightly >the amount of hands that crush us  ( 77,55,KQs,KQo )

I think you missed the point about why we should cbet Khigh boards. also lets not forget if we bet and he folds QT then that is abso fine. The theory of "we never get called by worse" should not stop us betting in spots where we have very strong equity vs our opponents range as a whole

also you're giving the villain waayyyyy to much credt assuming he wont have  or even 

[TheSnapper]

I think you missed the point about why we should cbet Khigh boards.

Do you mean the "balance" reasons, if so I have'nt missed the point, I agree with you that its not relevent in a .5 / 1 game.

also lets not forget if we bet and he folds QT then that is abso fine. The theory of "we never get called by worse" should not stop us betting in spots where we have very strong equity vs our opponents range as a whole

I look at it like this. We have have no reason to believe villain is an uber value fish and that we can bet 3 streets for value with tpmk, so we can......

A: bet flop / check turn / bet river
or
B: check flop/ bet turn / bet river

If he catches a Q or T on the turn we get value from a hand we would have folded out by betting the flop. Sure we will get outdrawn occasionally but on this super dry board I think letting him catch up will yield some extra value.

also you're giving the villain waayyyyy to much credt assuming he wont have  or even 

You could well be correct, op stated he had no reads which is suprising after 50 hands tbh. My default is to assign tighter ranges till proven otherwise, maybe too tight? or maybe assigning wider and tightening is a better idea?

[SuuPRlim]

In live poker (speshly at this level) I would give people no credit until proven otherwise, from my experience of playing these live games is people just call all the time, I used to play almost every night and remember countlessly value betting when it seems almost impossible anything worse can call, but call they did and with worse they had lol

I still think it's good to Cbet boards like this live, whereas people aren;t paying attention to most things people notice you are "betting a lot of flops" and then call you wider etc

I look at it like this. We have have no reason to believe villain is an uber value fish and that we can bet 3 streets for value with tpmk, so we can......

A: bet flop / check turn / bet river
or
B: check flop/ bet turn / bet river

If he catches a Q or T on the turn we get value from a hand we would have folded out by betting the flop. Sure we will get outdrawn occasionally but on this super dry board I think letting him catch up will yield some extra value.

yh letting him catch up for sure, bit of pot control/deception as well would defo chk sometimes I agree for those reasons, I think if i was gonna 2 street for value here it would be bet flop bet turn chk river, or option B you mentioned.

[zerofive]

You could well be correct, op stated he had no reads which is suprising after 50 hands tbh. My default is to assign tighter ranges till proven otherwise, maybe too tight? or maybe assigning wider and tightening is a better idea?

I'm just saying he's done nothing for five orbits except call once or twice and talk to the guy next to him about something not poker related. So I don't think he's a grinder by any means, just looks like a recreational player probably running bad on blackjack and decided to try his luck at poker. 50 hands lifetime is no way to get a read, but I agree with Dave in that, at this level, I'm not giving a player too much credit until he gives me a reason to.

I still think it's good to Cbet boards like this live, whereas people aren;t paying attention to most things people notice you are "betting a lot of flops" and then call you wider etc

There's obviously no way we're not betting this flop live. Balance isn't huge in a game like this, but some people are 'observant' enough to accredit my 60% cbet stat with "every time I raise pre I bet the flop," and their counterstrategy for this is to call more often.

Online I can think of several ways I would play this hand, but c/mr by live casino fish = puke.

from my experience of playing these live games is people just call all the time, I used to play almost every night and remember countlessly value betting when it seems almost impossible anything worse can call, but call they did and with worse they had lol

Also, this. Cannot count the amount of times I will have played a similar spot and been called by any pocket pair, second pair top kicker, a good hand pre that doesn't want to fold any flop texture, etc

Am quite excited to reveal results actually.

[SuuPRlim]

Anyone check back the flop here? is there really any value in betting?

well its a K high flop, and always great boards to cbet IP with your whole opening range because K high board will generally hit pre-flop raisers more than callers and you rarely get raised, so from a theoretical perspective you actually rep MORE air by betting than chking, as chking the flop usually rep's a hand will marginal strength and showdown value, whereas all your air will bet. So cbetting these board balances us nicely.

Having said that, this is live poker at the 50pence/1pound level and none of the above matters the point we should focus on is that we have a king in our hand and by a stroke of fortune there is one on the flop as well, and no1 ever folds, not even budget under pairs.

not wanting to upset you (DMorgan thought i was taking the piss) but are you leveling me. all of a sudden you two are quoting str8 from my bloody book and i am starting to like your style .X   

you mean my style of playing more than the top 3.76% of starting hands?

[boldie]

OK, I've had enough. This is a results orientated business after all, so what was the outcome of the hand? Or did you fold like a prissy-nancy girl?

[TheSnapper]

I'm just saying he's done nothing for five orbits except call once or twice and talk to the guy next to him about something not poker related. So I don't think he's a grinder by any means, just looks like a recreational player probably running bad on blackjack and decided to try his luck at poker. 50 hands lifetime is no way to get a read, but I agree with Dave in that, at this level, I'm not giving a player too much credit until he gives me a reason to.

I shall reverse my poles and give it a try, thanks.

There's obviously no way we're not betting this flop live. Balance isn't huge in a game like this, but some people are 'observant' enough to accredit my 60% cbet stat with "every time I raise pre I bet the flop," and their counterstrategy for this is to call more often.

Fair point, but begs the question, is it better ( more profitable ) for us when our flop cbets get little respect?

Cannot count the amount of times I will have played a similar spot and been called by any pocket pair, second pair top kicker, a good hand pre that doesn't want to fold any flop texture, etc

are you betting flop & turn, flop & river, 3 streets ?

[zerofive]

If our cbets are only ever really going to get through or get called, and we're really only cbetting boards that give us some equity in a game like this, then it's perfect that they get little respect. Also a decent percentage of casino fish will call the flop without a real plan, hoping that they improve or that we just give up on the turn. Also being given zero respect means that they will try to show up in random spots and run infeasible bluffs because we "can't have it every time."

Versus a station, betting three streets in position. The decision on the turn in this particular spot is either stick it in or fold, or as Dan Morgan says probably fold the flop. [  ] I fold to min-raises all the time, though.

Results:

I hated my life for a few seconds and then decided I wasn't folding and got it in. He winced and then shrugged and got it in with me and showed . The river filled me up anyway. What do we think of his line now?

[smashedagain]

In live poker (speshly at this level) I would give people no credit until proven otherwise, from my experience of playing these live games is people just call all the time, I used to play almost every night and remember countlessly value betting when it seems almost impossible anything worse can call, but call they did and with worse they had lol

I still think it's good to Cbet boards like this live, whereas people aren;t paying attention to most things people notice you are "betting a lot of flops" and then call you wider etc

I look at it like this. We have have no reason to believe villain is an uber value fish and that we can bet 3 streets for value with tpmk, so we can......

A: bet flop / check turn / bet river
or
B: check flop/ bet turn / bet river

If he catches a Q or T on the turn we get value from a hand we would have folded out by betting the flop. Sure we will get outdrawn occasionally but on this super dry board I think letting him catch up will yield some extra value.

yh letting him catch up for sure, bit of pot control/deception as well would defo chk sometimes I agree for those reasons, I think if i was gonna 2 street for value here it would be bet flop bet turn chk river, or option B you mentioned.

now you are just taking the piss. in my book it says "treat everyone as an idiot until proved otherwise".  i actually put this somewhere a few weeks ago and evilpie reckoned its the best bit of advice in pha ever. it may take a while but am gonna find it and out you for the plagiarist you are.