WWYD??

[youthnkzR]

Below is a hand i'd like some analysis on, will give my reasons for the way i played it + questions below the hand:

**Note** Previously to this hand, i had the villian ('FTorres1980') tagged as a good reg over a limited amount of hands (i snapped changed the tag after watching him play at this FT though).

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/754805_F3789B4F21

PokerStars Hand #86825676116: Tournament #617954167, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXV (15000/30000) - 2012/09/27 23:47:19 WET [2012/09/27 18:47:19 ET]
Table '617954167 8' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: GaggleoKings (930548 in chips)
Seat 4: Trona ziptet (1504185 in chips)
Seat 7: FTorres1980 (1168267 in chips)
GaggleoKings: posts the ante 3750
Trona ziptet: posts the ante 3750
FTorres1980: posts the ante 3750
FTorres1980: posts small blind 15000
GaggleoKings: posts big blind 30000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GaggleoKings [ ]
Trona ziptet: raises 31750 to 61750
FTorres1980: raises 82694 to 144444
GaggleoKings: raises 91153 to 235597
Trona ziptet: folds
FTorres1980: calls 91153

Just seemed like a perfect spot for a 4bet given the dynamic.

*** FLOP *** [ ]

I feel he can never have a king here because realistically what kings does he have in his range, also can never have a fd as im pretty sure he just jams.

FTorres1980: checks
GaggleoKings: bets 137579
FTorres1980: raises 151309 to 288888
GaggleoKings: calls 151309

I flat as i feel that he cant barrell like 95% of turns with air, and also i look super strong by flatting - coupled with the fact that the K hits our range hard. (with our previous history im 99% sure he never puts me on a fd here)

*** TURN *** [ ] []

Interesting card as we now have a pair, and im pretty confident we are now ahead in the hand. Previous to making a pair, the plan on the turn was to jam when checked to... However:

FTorres1980: checks
GaggleoKings: bets 111111
FTorres1980: raises 528921 to 640032 and is all-in
GaggleoKings: calls 291202 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (237719) returned to FTorres1980

I decided to (what i think is an) induce instead given the villians tendencies for being spewwy in some spots.

*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FTorres1980: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
GaggleoKings: shows [ ] (a pair of Tens)
FTorres1980 collected 1926596 from pot
GaggleoKings finished the tournament in 3rd place and received $1231.02.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1926596 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: GaggleoKings (big blind) showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 4: Trona ziptet (button) folded before Flop
Seat 7: FTorres1980 (small blind) showed [ ] and won (1926596) with a pair of Jacks

Gross river.... however the questions i have are:

1) WWYD on the flop as played pre? - a) fold to the raise / b) call the raise as played / c) jam the flop
2) WWYD on the turn as played on the flop? - a) jam (as our 2nd pair is quite vunerable and there are a few horrible rivers) / b) induce as played / c) check back with showdown

Ive reasoning for the route i chose to take for the questions above, however we've had quite a debate on this hand in my stable chat group on skype so would be interesting to hear from people on here aswell.

[rfgqqabc]

These hands are really complex and super dependent on gameflow and exact reads etc, and because of this make poor topics on forums imo. If everything you state is accurate, seems well played, however, ev of jamming turn might be greater than inducing with ICM bustouts here, altho i have no real clue if thats true, just something to think about.

P.S Leaving results out might help.

[youthnkzR]

These hands are really complex and super dependent on gameflow and exact reads etc, and because of this make poor topics on forums imo. If everything you state is accurate, seems well played, however, ev of jamming turn might be greater than inducing with ICM bustouts here, altho i have no real clue if thats true, just something to think about.

P.S Leaving results out might help.

agree with jamming the turn may be wiser when accounting for ICM however i feel that this villian will be calling a jam off on the turn with any K / 10 (all of which realistic ones he has beat me) ....etc therefore i thourght at the time it would be wiser to try induce him either when he has; little to no equity or else im beat - rather then stick it in his eye and him calling it off with myself having no equity (so giving him the chance to spaz).

[youthnkzR]

Also i agree with leaving results out most of the time here, however in this instance it doesnt totally matter - its the theory of how we got to that stage which is of interest to me at this point - i dont think anyone will be results orientanted about this hand as its very hard to be.

[rfgqqabc]

These hands are really complex and super dependent on gameflow and exact reads etc, and because of this make poor topics on forums imo. If everything you state is accurate, seems well played, however, ev of jamming turn might be greater than inducing with ICM bustouts here, altho i have no real clue if thats true, just something to think about.

P.S Leaving results out might help.

agree with jamming the turn may be wiser when accounting for ICM however i feel that this villian will be calling a jam off on the turn with any K / 10 (all of which realistic ones he has beat me) ....etc therefore i thourght at the time it would be wiser to try induce him either when he has; little to no equity or else im beat - rather then stick it in his eye and him calling it off with myself having no equity (so giving him the chance to spaz).

Yeah, pretty much how i feel about ICM but wanted to provoke further comments from someone a little more clued up. Also true with results, but I do wonder if peoples comments would change if they weren't included. Interesting hand to think about, looking forward to future discussion.

Opponent should just 5b here right? These spots where people call 4bs always seems to lead to some spaz at some point, and I always feel like they might as well do it pre where if it goes in they have the most equity possible, instead of getting it in like this!

[strak33]

Honestly what can we say?

Probably nobody else that will post here would have got all in on the turn this hand with him dead to 3 outs. You did. Well done ul 50p

[TL900]

FTtorres is abso mental. nh, ul

[SuuPRlim]

all the decisions you've made on each street are right, so wp there you've read the hand nicely but...

FOLD PRE
This isn't a good spot, mainly because you have a terrible offsuit hand - I know there is a "dynamic" but it's three handed, so it's not like this is a spot which is so good and hardly ever comes up. Putting any money in affter Torres' 3bet is defo spew here and I don't think it's close, speshly with the equity you LOSE when it all goes wrong like it has here.

As for the turn, IDK induce, check back and fold rivers, jam, it's such a weird spot you gotta go on instinct a bit and you got it right (and very UL) as for the flop I agree he's v likely FOS on the flop - his only real value hand is KQ I think and you can still have AK or AA (or KK even) all of which you're less likely to have. Most bigger suited ACES (nfd's) will 5b pf he maybe calls some smaller or something pre if he's overly splashy but could defo have hands like / / and he could even have ACES still although unlikely prolly.

I don't like the flop float purely because when you run into a hand that he wants to go with your equity is awful, this is exactly why you NEED to have a better hand pre-flop when making this kind of play. To me this is a pretty big blow-up sorry to say.

[Oxford_HRV]

first of all, nice in game read

what would I do on the flop? I'm never betting that small for sure, if we are thinking he is light pre rep this hard with a nice bet that looks like you're committed, we are playing 700k ish so make it 300k/fold

as played you opened yourself to get attacked by a raise on the flop, I would fold>jam>call

what would I do on the turn? break down into tears then shove.

[buffyslayer1]

Fold pre would be standard

3 handed with some ICM implications, cold 4 betting rags here seems a bit much. Not sure we need to take the spot even if we think torres is light (which he can be for sure).

If you are going to do it I would prefer at least some blockers or something that plays nicely postflop. As for the flop bet/fold would seem ok but not keen on the size would make it a lot bigger as we dont want to induce