Really deep SCOOP L Main

[youthnkzR]

PokerStars Hand #99166174733: Tournament #2013050431, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (17500/35000) - 2013/05/27 5:20:16 WET [2013/05/27 0:20:16 ET]
Table '2013050431 1028' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Voziyanov15 (2468686 in chips)
Seat 2: Rafael-BT88 (654757 in chips)
Seat 3: mongoliser (902913 in chips)
Seat 4: wasjaxjev (1215244 in chips)
Seat 5: Freeway1988 (883496 in chips)
Seat 6: plamax14 (449546 in chips)
Seat 7: essox444 (2342660 in chips)
Seat 8: Karger222 (760190 in chips)
Seat 9: GaggleoKings (1550603 in chips)
Voziyanov15: posts the ante 4375
Rafael-BT88: posts the ante 4375
mongoliser: posts the ante 4375
wasjaxjev: posts the ante 4375
Freeway1988: posts the ante 4375
plamax14: posts the ante 4375
essox444: posts the ante 4375
Karger222: posts the ante 4375
GaggleoKings: posts the ante 4375
wasjaxjev: posts small blind 17500
Freeway1988: posts big blind 35000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GaggleoKings [ ]
plamax14: folds
essox444: folds
Karger222: folds
GaggleoKings: raises 35000 to 70000
Voziyanov15: folds
Rafael-BT88: folds
mongoliser: folds
wasjaxjev: folds
Freeway1988: raises 809121 to 879121 and is all-in
GaggleoKings:

I've been very very active - villain is winning $20k over 11k games on SS. No real sample (<50 hands).

[TL900]

fold, I expect him to peel alot of his smaller pairs that we dominate because its only 1bb and he closes the action. Expect to see TT+ AJs AQo or something in a vacuum, he might peel some of those too though so might be tighter

[BorntoBubble]

fold. He raised a lot of chips therefore i fold crush his soul later with quads

[pleno1]

Call expect to be dominating him a lot

[DMorgan]

Would not fold

[mulhuzz]

Think call is pretty good here.

[wazz]

A low-stakes grinder is cramming 25bbs over a minraise deep in one of the biggest-money situations he'll ever find himself when he's got great odds to call with hands he could consider jamming here? Easy fold, give me TT and it's close. Our stack is worth a lot right now, having it increased to 75 bbs isn't worth very much but having it down to 25 would be pretty rough.

[youthnkzR]

I called he had 99.

Was pretty annoyed after I called and he showed down this hand but on reflection I still think its the right call. Over the previous 50 hands he'd been at the table I was running 36/31 - this along with the fact the guy had lost half his stack (came to the table with 1.5m) since joining us - I felt he'd quite easily rip any pair however would probably be 3b/calling 1010+ based on the way I'd been playing.

Just did a quick stove of it and assuming he rips any pair 22-99 and KQs/A10s/AJo - AQo / half th combos of AQs around 63% vs this range - this meaning he 3b/cs half combos of AQs / AKo/ AKs / 1010+

Think that this may be too big of an edge to pass at this stage of a tournament just really annoying he had the top of his ripping range.

[wazz]

I don't think he had the top of his ripping range.

You've got to mention your table image in your OP if you want that information accounted for in any answer. Even accounting for you being active I think this is still a fold. Would probably call 99+ perhaps. But with over 20bbs it's so easy to flick it in with your low pp, try to hit a set and go for the double-up that way, or play a small pot OOP, than risking that much to win such a small amount, for the risk of being 20% equity a bunch of the time.

I don't think you can discount premiums and I think you can discount rando broadways and low pps.

[MC]

Would not fold

[gs08bjohnson]

A low-stakes grinder is cramming 25bbs over a minraise deep in one of the biggest-money situations he'll ever find himself when he's got great odds to call with hands he could consider jamming here? Easy fold, give me TT and it's close. Our stack is worth a lot right now, having it increased to 75 bbs isn't worth very much but having it down to 25 would be pretty rough.

/thread

[youthnkzR]

A low-stakes grinder is cramming 25bbs over a minraise deep in one of the biggest-money situations he'll ever find himself when he's got great odds to call with hands he could consider jamming here? Easy fold, give me TT and it's close. Our stack is worth a lot right now, having it increased to 75 bbs isn't worth very much but having it down to 25 would be pretty rough.

/thread

Really fail to see how this is thread over.

[gs08bjohnson]

There are far more reasons to fold than call here.  Without wanting to re-iterate, all mentioned by Wazz are very valid and weigh heavily over us having 63% over a very optimistic jamming range.  Not only have you got the villain jamming wider than he will - yes he's a reg (ss though) and may realise he can jam wide here, but there is a big difference between him knowing it's profitable and him doing it in a big equity spot for him - but you have him jamming a very convenient range (all pps under 88) some of which he will most likely take a flop with from the bb. I do agree the villain will 3b call a decent amount of his premiums, but again not as often as he usually may due to the precise nature of the spot.  Add to this the utility you lose here calling and losing this pot in what should be a very soft tournament that I assume you at least believe you have a very strong edge over. Calling with 88 here just isn't going to be the best way to skin this cat. 

A slightly more realistic calling range may still give you a profitable price to call, and in many tournaments, against many players it is going to be a spot you cannot avoid, but all the other factors here will endeavour to make it a far than optimal decision in this particular case, and I refuse to believe it is even that close. However, it is all very subjective and fortunately, for my face and the egg, it is pretty impossible to calculate the effect of all the variables and come to a definitive answer. 

[youthnkzR]

There are far more reasons to fold than call here.  Without wanting to re-iterate, all mentioned by Wazz are very valid and weigh heavily over us having 63% over a very optimistic jamming range.  Not only have you got the villain jamming wider than he will - yes he's a reg (ss though) and may realise he can jam wide here, but there is a big difference between him knowing it's profitable and him doing it in a big equity spot for him - but you have him jamming a very convenient range (all pps under 88) some of which he will most likely take a flop with from the bb. I do agree the villain will 3b call a decent amount of his premiums, but again not as often as he usually may due to the precise nature of the spot.  Add to this the utility you lose here calling and losing this pot in what should be a very soft tournament that I assume you at least believe you have a very strong edge over. Calling with 88 here just isn't going to be the best way to skin this cat. 

A slightly more realistic calling range may still give you a profitable price to call, and in many tournaments, against many players it is going to be a spot you cannot avoid, but all the other factors here will endeavour to make it a far than optimal decision in this particular case, and I refuse to believe it is even that close. However, it is all very subjective and fortunately, for my face and the egg, it is pretty impossible to calculate the effect of all the variables and come to a definitive answer. 

Looking back mate i think this is probably right about this being an edge pass. Have spoken to quite a few people about it now and the general consensus was that both call and fold are fine options - however with the standard of the field being so poor it may have been wiser to wait for a better spot.

Appreciate the replies.