maybe im just the worst?

[pleno1]

Ok, this is not a pha thread in terms of asking about a specific hand, but its more about the approach im making to both live and online tournaments, that is very very different and very controversial, when one of these hands at the table turned over everybody was in absolute shock.


Hand 1)

MP opens to 250 at 50/100 with 25k stacks. CO calls. Im in the bb with KK and flat.


Hand 2)

Mp opens, to 400 100/200, hijac,  and the SB call and i am in the BB with QQ and flat.


If MP opened and i was in position i would also flat.


So my reasoning is that I think there is some value in 3betting and playing hu, if its a huge fish then would very likely do it, but generally pre antes and early i look to play multi way pots with premium pair, qq,kk,aa with the intention of set over setting people or getting it in very good. IE if the flop comes k87 i just dont have kk in my range. Also by calling and with such stack depths i invite others to come along and generally im playing these pots 3-5 handed.

I think its important that if we call with these hands we just simply c/f certain boards and by no stretch of the imagination get super commited with them.

Could somebody more MTT orientated kind of fight the battle for 3betting as that is obviously the standard. HU I know this is potentially standard for some but multiway i think its non standard

[GreekStein]

very controversial

[SuuPRlim]

Hand 1)

MP opens to 250 at 50/100 with 25k stacks. CO calls. Im in the bb with KK and flat.

Robert Williamson III does not approve.

[dwayne110]

The clip above could have played out the same way with mizrachi being behind to queen-x or flushing hands, easy to pick out examples like this where it's gone wrong! this style can work but doesn't half put you in spots where u don't really know where you're at. The issue is how you play it through the streets and when/if u give up, which is so difficult to know in multi-way pots where peeps can have flatted with such a broad range. The benefit of flaring for deception seems likely to be outweighed by not being able to define opponent's ranges, and of course the more opponents the less likely aces and kings will finish ahead by the river. To me, it seems like an unnecessary way of making the game more complicated than it needs to be, especially if you feel you have a skill-edge

[Honeybadger]

Seems fine to me. I mean, it is only preflop. And KK or QQ are just poker hands like any other. I once heard a story about someone who 3bet overbet jammed AA preflop for a massive amount of BBs. A tourney guy was asked about it and he said something like, "hmmm... I don't mind it actually. AA is not really part of my game plan for accumulating chips anyway." Different, but the same IMO.

There is definitely something to be said for simply not 3betting from OOP when very deep in chips. And playing big pairs for set value and/or top-of-the-range-bluff-catchers when you flop an overpair. I am sure it is not 'optimum'... but who cares? It is only preflop lol.

I remember a hand from back when I used to grind NLHE online. A very good reg flatted my BTN open with KK in the BB. It went to showdown (and he won ofc). And for the next month or so I found myself in tough spots against him in BTN/blind dynamics. Because I knew he had some really strong hands in his preflop range, which prevented me from barrelling as much and also no doubt allowed him to cr bluff me a fair few times on flops/turns.

[AlexMartin]

much happier not having a 3b range deep oop. deep i want to smash the button all the time so need some kings and stuff there.

[muckthenuts]

I don't really like it for something like a £300 at dtd, where most players focus is on absolute hand values and not ranges so the disguise doesn't come into play so much, and by having a smaller spr postflop you deffo get less out of people who will always call 3 streets with TP. It's also quite hard to set over set people and the idea of not getting married to a big pp prob harder to carry out in practice than in theory, as you have a stronger hand than you're supposed to have and relinquished initiative to your opponent making it harder to fold.