Early hand Goliath

[baldock92]

Blondes, im playing the Goliath and just had a tough river spot (self inflicted I believe due to poor play on the turn and probably other streets). Let me know your thoughts.

Blinds are 75/150, no ante, I have 25k ish and villain has around 40k and is to my direct right. Not much info on the guy, seems competent compared to others on the table.

We're both mid position and is folded rounded to the villain who open limps (first time he's done this). I've stolen a few pots by raising limpers already. I find KQss and make it 550. Button calls (playing far too many hands) and villain calls.

Flop comes Ah .  I bet 700, button calls, villain makes it 2400. I tank make it 5800. Button folds, villain asks how much behind and then calls.

Turn comes . Villain checks, and I check behind (I hate this now)

River comes . Villain bets 6k.

What's our play?

In my head I had him on a small pair or J10 that would perhaps limp pre and raise flop. The 8 would have completed the J10 straight which made me check behind. I hate this now, wish I'd have bet small like 6k.

Thoughts appreciated. Don't rip me too much!

[DMorgan]

I just fold the flop.

In this sort of live tournament the kind of player that is open limp/calling and then c/raising flop for value isn't going to fold any of those hands and probably isn't going to start c/raising with hands like A3s because he blocks AA/AQ. Against his value range there is no good turn for us, its just not a hand that we need to defend imo. We have plenty of good hands to defend in this spot even if we think that he's taking off.

I'd check back flop too. When we bet we narrow their ranges to hands that have good equity against us. We don't really need to protect against much and people aren't folding Ax unless you want to fire three. People can't just start barreling off against your check back because you'll have some weaker Ax hands that want to check back too and I wouldn't expect this field to be giving you a capped range and just fire turn 2x pot river.

[Tal]

To use an arbboyism, this is a £100 donkament where we have been raised holding second pair on an ace high flop with a caller in between. The old "how much are you playing? I call" number geta a welcome outing, too.

We are hardly ever good and the turn gets all the remaining hands we beat ahead of us.

Really no need IMO to get a quarter of our stack in. Check it down and consider value betting the river depending on the run out. Personally, keep the pots small while people are trying to give away chips unless we have a monster.

For balance, this sort of early comp extravagance is exactly the sort of thing I do...and then bemoan my luck when he rolls over 99, having checked the turn because he was worried about the straight.

Still loads of chips and plenty more to get, so best of luck, sir.

[david3103]

I don't believe there are many bluffs or semi-bluffs that villain check raises into two players on that flop. Certainly none that he doesn't give up on when you 3 bet. Unless it was Ludo having a day out.

[muckthenuts]

I think the flop play is good actually but it looks like you've done it without any sort of a plan. I can definitely see justifications for it though. You hold a good blocking hand to 3b bluff with, ofc have a massive range advantage on this board and this sort of texture doesn't hold too many hands our opponent could legitimately be raising for value here that we have to worry about:

AA/QQ - Very unlikely
AQ - should raise pre
99 - should raise pre
Q9 - Possible. We could get this to fold ott though.
JT- Possible, perhaps likely to smooth call flop as well though.

So I think flop is good, but on the turn we should follow through and put him to the test.

[rfgqqabc]

Don't hate the flop 3bet, he is going to show us A7o or something silly sometimes. I still think checking back the flop is definitely the best play, and I think betting is a big mistake for the reasons outlined above. I agree with DMorgans point about people not raising because they block AA/AQ but they might raise it because they are scared and just want to win the pot/find out where they are at.

Not really sure what you want to do after the flop 3bet, I think just giving up is the optimal play now. Why would you expect him to fold to 6k when he didn't do so on the flop. We have seen he likes his hand, enough to call your reraise to 5800, so I'm surprised to see you think a 6k turn bet will suddenly put him off. I know JT just got there and he rarely has that, although if he did raise the flop you did give him the price, and even if he didnt, in this live comp he might call anyway.

I would fold the river. I see almost no hand apart from a complete airball that you beat and that is almost impossible after our opponent check/raises the flop and then calls a bet.

Just try to keep it simple, before you bet will you a) fold out better hands or b) get called by worse hands. Your flop bet doesn't achieve either, particularly well. I do like your opening size but I think you've gotten yourself in a muddle somewhere in the hand. Keep it simple, we don't have to be the sickest guy in the room, we should try and be the most solid. Poker can be a very simple game when we just try to play as solid as possible. I'm also unsure as to why you think your opponent would check/raise a small pair sometimes on the flop. Someone who seems at least a bit competent who has chosen to limp this sort of hand is rarely going to decide to go off on one after the flop. It does happen, but not from the ok guys, just the absolute nutters. I hope you don't feel like I tore you a new one here, but I think you show several thought process leaks here, and turn a fairly simple spot into a tricky one with the fancy plays.

If you check the flop, the general plan is to call one vs a turn lead, and then to largely fold to a second bet, or if it goes 3 ways to the river with a bet on the turn to just hope we get given the chips at showdown.

My problem with the flop 3bet, is that we have to bet the flop to get there, and I don't think that is very good. I'd also size it a little bigger just to get fold equity now, as putting in a turn bet for 1/3rd of our stack isn't going to be much fun.

[david3103]

I think the flop play is good actually but it looks like you've done it without any sort of a plan. I can definitely see justifications for it though. You hold a good blocking hand to 3b bluff with, ofc have a massive range advantage on this board and this sort of texture doesn't hold too many hands our opponent could legitimately be raising for value here that we have to worry about:

AA/QQ - Very unlikely
AQ - should raise pre
99 - should raise pre
Q9 - Possible. We could get this to fold ott though.
JT- Possible, perhaps likely to smooth call flop as well though.

So I think flop is good, but on the turn we should follow through and put him to the test.



[/quote

This is the Goliath where I would assume that the population is similar to that in a GP. I agree that AA and QQ would have been raised pre, but 99 probably doesn't, nor necessarily AQ, and although Q9 feels unlikely given preflop action good luck getting someone to fold two pair in that field.

Long way to go and dusting off half your chips at this stage makes it all a lot harder.

[pleno1]

Seems perfect (69-7100 otf though imo)

Givong up turn/folding river seems wp

[baldock92]

Ty guys for the thoughts.

Don't hate the flop 3bet, he is going to show us A7o or something silly sometimes. I still think checking back the flop is definitely the best play, and I think betting is a big mistake for the reasons outlined above. I agree with DMorgans point about people not raising because they block AA/AQ but they might raise it because they are scared and just want to win the pot/find out where they are at.

Not really sure what you want to do after the flop 3bet, I think just giving up is the optimal play now. Why would you expect him to fold to 6k when he didn't do so on the flop. We have seen he likes his hand, enough to call your reraise to 5800, so I'm surprised to see you think a 6k turn bet will suddenly put him off. I know JT just got there and he rarely has that, although if he did raise the flop you did give him the price, and even if he didnt, in this live comp he might call anyway.

I would fold the river. I see almost no hand apart from a complete airball that you beat and that is almost impossible after our opponent check/raises the flop and then calls a bet.

Just try to keep it simple, before you bet will you a) fold out better hands or b) get called by worse hands. Your flop bet doesn't achieve either, particularly well. I do like your opening size but I think you've gotten yourself in a muddle somewhere in the hand. Keep it simple, we don't have to be the sickest guy in the room, we should try and be the most solid. Poker can be a very simple game when we just try to play as solid as possible. I'm also unsure as to why you think your opponent would check/raise a small pair sometimes on the flop. Someone who seems at least a bit competent who has chosen to limp this sort of hand is rarely going to decide to go off on one after the flop. It does happen, but not from the ok guys, just the absolute nutters. I hope you don't feel like I tore you a new one here, but I think you show several thought process leaks here, and turn a fairly simple spot into a tricky one with the fancy plays.

If you check the flop, the general plan is to call one vs a turn lead, and then to largely fold to a second bet, or if it goes 3 ways to the river with a bet on the turn to just hope we get given the chips at showdown.

My problem with the flop 3bet, is that we have to bet the flop to get there, and I don't think that is very good. I'd also size it a little bigger just to get fold equity now, as putting in a turn bet for 1/3rd of our stack isn't going to be much fun.

Nope I prefer the brutally honest responses to be honest, no point beating around the bush- I only play now and then so there will ultimately be many flaws with my game, just got to try and stop the leaks!

Seems perfect (69-7100 otf though imo)

Givong up turn/folding river seems wp

Was later told (who knows whether it's BS) he had 33. Sigh. Results orientated moan...