Cheaters really get my goat.

[Sheriff Fatman]

One of the good things about the new Party update is that they've removed the faciility to easily datamine observed tables.  I'm sure a few bright sparks will find a way around this but it should hopefully curtail the info which people a few of these data services were obtaining.

There's a big difference between tracking stats for hands that you are playing and using this info using, say, PokerTracker (basically an extremely detailed form of note-taking) and commercially datamining tables 24/7 for use by subscribers to your service.  I hope the clampdown on these services continues.

Sheriff

[Decider]

Hello,

When I first started playing poker I considered writing an application that would take the logs from the sites and build up a database of players habits. I searched around to see if I could find an opensource version that I could adapt, but they were all far too basic. I didn't get around to going any further, the complexity of writing this system from scratch is far more than a one man job, I do think it's a valuable tool as it would give a huge advantage to you if you have these stats available. Combining a players stats across all the sites they play and building up a profile of them would be hugely advantageous.

The bots are not advanced enough as yet, but I'm sure soon enough they will get to a pretty high level of gameplay.

The real problem for online players will come when there is a tool that combines the two applications. A bot with a sufficient AI will be able to interogate the database of playing patterns and adapt accordingly. It would be far more difficult to detect by any online site than a simple bot playing the percentages, and far more difficult to play against.

Hopefully those programmers and mathematicians responsible for the successfull chess applications don't get to involved in online poker.

Cheers,

Eoan

[Mr F]

I'm glad people brought up the subject of colluding.  Being of an extremely paranoid nature I've been getting a bit worried. 

One of the reasons I got myself on Pokerstars was because one my best mates is on there and we can compete against each other.  Since we both started playing all we want to do is beat each other.  But I'm worried if we turn up on the same table people are going to start making comments.  Neither of us is going to softplay, in fact we'll probably be more aggressive.  To be frank he has probably never even heard of collusion as he doesn't visit forums or get involved in the game outside of his pc.

But it still worries me.  Any advice or opinions greatly appreciated.

[Dingdell]

I'm glad people brought up the subject of colluding.  Being of an extremely paranoid nature I've been getting a bit worried. 

One of the reasons I got myself on Pokerstars was because one my best mates is on there and we can compete against each other.  Since we both started playing all we want to do is beat each other.  But I'm worried if we turn up on the same table people are going to start making comments.  Neither of us is going to softplay, in fact we'll probably be more aggressive.  To be frank he has probably never even heard of collusion as he doesn't visit forums or get involved in the game outside of his pc.

But it still worries me.  Any advice or opinions greatly appreciated.

It worried me too when I was told this - I have a friend I play with regularly on the net - as I'm sure lots of people do. The chances are that neither one of us is playing as much with the same people as the pro players who play all the time. 

How many times have you seen chat where it's been "Hi mate - how are you, how did you do in the comp earlier" etc etc. Those players may never have met but will play on the same tables day after day.  I think a lot of elements make up a reasonable suspicion and only if you soft play, chip pass and continue to do it will any site become suspicious imho.

We are safe! 

[Decider]

I had an incident on stars last night, 3 players left in a $15 STT ( 9 runners ). I have 2.5k, player a has 2.5k, player b has 8.5k. We play for quite a while, Player a and b raise me, but not each other. Then player a and b in a hand and check it to the river, in which player b hits his full house, 8's full of 7's, with an 8 on the river, he checks and player a checks. Player b wins 100 chips.  I ask why he doesn't bet, he has top pair on flop, two pair on turn and full house on river ( since I'm suspecting collusion ), he says he's "waiting for him to catch up".

Needless to say, I wasn't impressed, but didn't see any point in stating this on the table, just keep playing. I don't think there is anyway in this case to prove collusion. Perhaps he intended to write "waiting for him to catch", but his subconscious made him type "up" as that's what he was thinking.

[Dingdell]

I would just report it to poker stars and let them get on with it - you never know....

If we dont give them info they can't police, and it may only be small collusion at this stage but if PS are aware of it then they can keep an eye on it.

Tracey

[Nem]

I had an incident on stars last night, 3 players left in a $15 STT ( 9 runners ). I have 2.5k, player a has 2.5k, player b has 8.5k. We play for quite a while, Player a and b raise me, but not each other. Then player a and b in a hand and check it to the river, in which player b hits his full house, 8's full of 7's, with an 8 on the river, he checks and player a checks. Player b wins 100 chips.  I ask why he doesn't bet, he has top pair on flop, two pair on turn and full house on river ( since I'm suspecting collusion ), he says he's "waiting for him to catch up".

Needless to say, I wasn't impressed, but didn't see any point in stating this on the table, just keep playing. I don't think there is anyway in this case to prove collusion. Perhaps he intended to write "waiting for him to catch", but his subconscious made him type "up" as that's what he was thinking.

You should definitely report it to Pokerstars.