Should i quit the cash tables?

[LukieD]

It really depends what your aims are to do with bankroll. It is a case of risk vs. reward. By playing stakes outside your bankroll the potential rewards are higher but you risk losing your whole roll. If this is your aim then you can play with much less than I recommended. The swings in cash tables can be savage though and a couple of bad beats in big pots can cost you a large proportion of your bankroll if you dont manage it adequately.

With $400 if you don't want to risk losing it you should really be playing much lower stakes, and only move up when you have a bigger roll. If you are a profitable cash table player then grinding it out at the lower stakes should enable you to move up reasonably soon.

[jezza777]

Bankroll requirements really depend on the person, the type of game you play and your reason for playing. Varience can be controlled to some degree by the playing style you choose.

[suzanne]

Somebody hit me over the head with a hammer........

ok this is the kind of manic play i am playing at the moment

Message from Space 8161373-63064 Holdem No Limit $0.50/$1
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Hand Start.
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 1 : mattelynn has $52.50
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 2 : kp161 has $86.75
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 3 : zabbuddah has $10.75
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has $92.25
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 5 : The Angler has $179.50
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has $197.31
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : MissHoolie is the dealer.
[Jun 1 03:15:22] : The Angler posted small blind.
[Jun 1 03:15:23] : hamazriya posted big blind.
[Jun 1 03:15:23] : Game [63064] started with 6 players.
[Jun 1 03:15:23] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jun 1 03:15:23] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:15:25] : mattelynn folded.
[Jun 1 03:15:27] : kp161 folded.
[Jun 1 03:15:28] : zabbuddah folded.
[Jun 1 03:15:33] : MissHoolie called $1 and raised $4
[Jun 1 03:15:35] : The Angler folded.
[Jun 1 03:15:40] : hamazriya called $4 and raised $11
[Jun 1 03:15:43] : MissHoolie called $11
[Jun 1 03:15:43] : Dealing flop.
[Jun 1 03:15:43] : Board cards [ ]
[Jun 1 03:15:47] : hamazriya bet $16
[Jun 1 03:15:53] : MissHoolie called $16
[Jun 1 03:15:53] : Dealing turn.
[Jun 1 03:15:53] : Board cards [ ]
[Jun 1 03:15:58] : hamazriya bet $25
[Jun 1 03:16:04] : MissHoolie called $25 and raised $35.25 and is All-in
[Jun 1 03:16:05] : hamazriya called $35.25
[Jun 1 03:16:06] : Showdown!
[Jun 1 03:16:06] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:16:07] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:16:07] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has
[Jun 1 03:16:12] : Board cards [ ]
[Jun 1 03:16:12] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:16:12] : MissHoolie has Pair: Kings
[Jun 1 03:16:12] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has
[Jun 1 03:16:12] : hamazriya has High Card : King
[Jun 1 03:16:13] : MissHoolie wins $182 with Pair: Kings
[Jun 1 03:16:22] : Hand is over

so then i won a couple of hands.........and dont forget ive got the hecklers on my back

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
Message from Space 8161373-63077 Holdem No Limit $0.50/$1
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Hand Start.
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 1 : mattelynn has $27.50
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 2 : kp161 has $133
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 3 : zabbuddah has $5.25
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has $206.50
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 5 : The Angler has $280.06
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has $100
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : mattelynn is the dealer.
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : kp161 posted small blind.
[Jun 1 03:25:13] : zabbuddah posted big blind.
[Jun 1 03:25:15] : hamazriya posted big blind and dead small blind.
[Jun 1 03:25:15] : Game [63077] started with 6 players.
[Jun 1 03:25:15] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jun 1 03:25:15] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:25:21] : MissHoolie : ??
[Jun 1 03:25:27] : MissHoolie called $1 and raised $4
[Jun 1 03:25:33] : The Angler folded.
[Jun 1 03:25:34] : hamazriya called $4
[Jun 1 03:25:34] : mattelynn folded.
[Jun 1 03:25:35] : kp161 folded.
[Jun 1 03:25:36] : zabbuddah called $4 and raised $0.25 and is All-in
[Jun 1 03:25:36] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Jun 1 03:25:51] : It's your turn.
[Jun 1 03:25:51] : MissHoolie has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jun 1 03:25:55] : MissHoolie called $0.25
[Jun 1 03:25:56] : hamazriya called $0.25
[Jun 1 03:25:57] : Dealing flop.
[Jun 1 03:25:57] : Board cards [As ]
[Jun 1 03:26:03] : MissHoolie checked.
[Jun 1 03:26:05] : hamazriya bet $6
[Jun 1 03:26:15] : MissHoolie called $6
[Jun 1 03:26:15] : Dealing turn.
[Jun 1 03:26:15] : Board cards [As ]
[Jun 1 03:26:23] : MissHoolie : put your $$ cash where ur mouth is?
[Jun 1 03:26:28] : MissHoolie checked.
[Jun 1 03:26:29] : hamazriya bet $16
[Jun 1 03:26:31] : MissHoolie called $16
[Jun 1 03:26:32] : Dealing river.
[Jun 1 03:26:32] : Board cards [As ]
[Jun 1 03:26:35] : MissHoolie checked.
[Jun 1 03:26:39] : hamazriya bet $40
[Jun 1 03:26:41] : MissHoolie called $40
[Jun 1 03:26:41] : Showdown!
[Jun 1 03:26:41] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has
[Jun 1 03:26:43] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has
[Jun 1 03:26:43] : hamazriya has Full House : full of Jacks
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : hamazriya wins $121.35 with Full House : full of Jacks
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : Seat 3 : zabbuddah has
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : zabbuddah has Pair: Jacks
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : Seat 6 : hamazriya has
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : hamazriya has Full House : full of Jacks
[Jun 1 03:26:44] : hamazriya wins $16.40 with Full House : full of Jacks
[Jun 1 03:26:53] : Hand is over.

Did i play it wrong?

I dont think i did and if im wrong please advise

Im so annoyed coz i was up to 250 at one stage and lost half of it

I still left 80 up so not so bad

[suzanne]

PS i need a reason to go to bed :-(

[redsimon]

I think you need to turn the chat option off as it looks like it was getting to you in that final hand.

Anyway judging by the BPL you might make more money in NLHE SNGs etc.

[matt674]

I'm no cash game expert so others may well be able to offer better advice....... But to me i would say is it any wonder you have large variances in your game when you call preflop reraises with K8 suited then call a bet on Q-7-J rainbow flop?!?!? Exactly what are you calling with? granted your opponent has worse but you werent to know that at the time - if you are continuously making calls like this then its no surprise your bankroll goes 

The second one is just unlucky - you called a 50-50 shot and despite improving was never infront and given how your opponent plays you then find it hard to lay down a hand like top pair top kicker with an inside straight draw. I agree with Simon as well that you need to turn your chat off while playing as it is apparent that you become too emotional during play and it is at times of high emotion that our guard is at its lowest and mistakes creep in. And in poker more often it isnt my good play that makes me my profit its the fact that i can get my opponent to make more mistakes than me.

Of course i'm just an MTT monkey so i may be way of the mark....

[rivered]

I agree with Matt.  The first hand was bonkers.  OK so you try to pick up the blinds off the button with a reasonable-ish hand in a 6-seater, but then the BB puts in a raise.  Have you made this move b4?  If so has he usually just folded?  If so, then I'm folding.  If you're certain he's a maniac then maybe see a flop, but look at it this way - you've just bet 10% of your cash preflop with K8 when you were just trying to pick up the blinds... now you start to see why volatility is high...  After that it all goes a bit crazy - why did you call the flop bet?  you're not even beating A high.  The fact that you end up winning it is irrelevant - this sort of play in the long run will lose you money.... i.m.o.

The second hand I think was fair play, given the maniac stuff he got up to before.  I'm not sure I could've got away from TPTK on that board - normally I would've led out on that board and bet strongly to avoid any flush / straight chasing, but it was probably sensible to keep it a little smaller with him betting with 3To in previous hands...

[Claw75]

Hi Suzanne,

I'm certainly no expert but, for what's it's worth, here's what I would have done.

Hand 1.  Pre flop I would probably make a similar raise on the button.  I would have folded to the reraise though.  Presuming I had seen the flop, there is no way I would have called the $16 bet - you have no hand and no draw.

Hand 2.  I'd probably have bet out with my ace post flop with the two clubs out.  After that - I'd have struggled to get away from that hand too.

As others have said, I really think you need to turn off the chat - you need to be concentrating 100% on the game and not on the people that are trying to put you on tilt.

Really hope things pick up for you xx

[Karabiner]

I know some terrific tournament players who struggle in cash games and vice-versa.

Perhaps your game is more suited to tournaments where if you go on tilt your losses are limited.

Some great posts on here, especially from Jungle-cat.

[TightEnd]

I agree.


For heaven's sake turn the chat off, its tilting you.

[jezza777]

ok, for what its worth here are my views.

The first hand is insane,  attacking blinds with a trash hand like k8 even 6 handed on the button is pointless especially against a manically aggressive player like Hamazriya.  As for calling the reraise , well you really need to ask why you are doing this ? If it's against a tight player who raises with big cards then calling with suited connectors to stack him off csn be a good play but it has to be against the right player. The call on the flop is almost unexplainable, even if you hit your K there is no gaurentee you are ahead , if you are calling for a backdoor flush then stop it cost too much long term.  You won the pot here but you did so after making error after error and this is not winning poker.

The second hand is a bit unlucky and Harmaziya looks a difficult player to read. The problem I have here is you only call through the hand , I think you need tio reraise the flop. Just calling all the way down here is not good you have not found out anything about his hand. Given the type of player you are against I think the money goes in anyway but at least a reraise on the flop will give you a better idea of where you stand and you can perhaps get away .Although after seeing what he tabled in the 1st hand it would be very very tough.

Just turn off the chat its doing you no favours

best of luck

jezza

[suzanne]

I agree entirely...I should not have been in the first hand AT ALL but this guy had reraised every raise I had made and I was pretty sure he was bluffing through his back teeth. So I thought okay...lets see how far you will go. I was undoubtedly on tilt and was lucky to have won the hand but my thoughts were to make a stand.

After the first hand he tightened up a bit and I managed to steal a few blinds which is why I posted the 2nd hand.

I was pretty sure he actually had a hand which is why I felt I played this badly.

So...on the river was I wrong to call his $40 knowing that AQ AJ K10 any J or pp had me beat?

Keithy...lots of questions and where to start LOL

I dont actually use a tracker so I have no way of checking whether the down period was due to variance...it possible was but I feel it was probably down to bad play.

The stalkers are 2 guys/gals in particular and no I dont think they are in it together. One or the other always seems to sit at my table and rub me down. I have watched them at other tables and its how they play so its not just me they pick on. Fortunatly I have several accounts on tribeca and have managed to get a few bob back, I might reveal who I am one day after I have taken a huge pot from one of them 

1.   Are you too impatient to be involved in hands when playing cash games after STT’s?
      No I dont think so, but then I always play cash before bed after playing STT's. Maybe I should try cash first.
2.   Do you let other player’s negative comments affect your game?
      Yes
3.   Are other players able to tell that their comment’s have affected your gameplay/confidence?
      Probably 
4.   Does your current overall bankroll situation affect your gameplay?
      No I wouldnt say it does, I can play confidently at 50/1 though I am aware a few bad nights could see me go bust which obviously would be a bummer but this does not effect my gameplay.
5.   Do you look at hand histories and evaluate your play in the big cash pots (wins and losses)?
      Yes, before I play most evenings I study my hand history and try to learn from my mistakes

 Last night with all your advice on board  I sat at a 9 seater 25/50c with the chat OFF thinking play tight. I waited for premium hands and I have never been more BORED in my life.

So im thinking if I am going to play at this level within my bankroll then I will need to learn to multi table...is this hard to do?

I know you can change the screen settings but im not sure how, I tried it once and the screen went all fuzzy. What should I change it to so I can see 2 tables?

Thanks again for all the GREAT advise.

[Claw75]

Suzanne,

I multi table regularly and I've only got a 15" screen!  If you're only playing 2 tables and only playing premium hands you should find it a doddle.  Why not have a go at some play money tables or something just to get used to switching between the two?

Good luck!

[TightEnd]

a) 2 tables is fine on a standard monitor

b) with respect, low level cash is a grind. Playing solid poker to win consistently is about disicipline, temperament, concentration and focus. Boredom is good, its a sign that you have a good chance of winning.

If you are going to be easily bored playing solid poker they may not be right for you. It sounds like you'd prefer tournaments/sit n goes.

[snoopy1239]

Before I went to the Western p4c game I went through a bad patch on stts (what used to be my breadwinner) so I ventured onto cash and found I did pretty good.

Normal night would be loose $25/30 on $5 stts, with the odd win, go on cash 10/20c and win $30/50.

Since then I found I have done better on stts but cash has gone to hell.

I went through $200 in the week after p4c which is a lot for me, then got my form back and im doing reasonably ok..ie won back my $200 and holding steady.

Fluctuations like this are just part of the game, you just have to get used to them. If you don't, then you're in trouble and are gonna find yourself getting het up about something that may well be luck related. If you can't, then the cash table really isn't the place for you.

What you mustn't do is assume that your game is top notch. If you're losing consistently, then readdress your game and try and find out where you're going wrong.

Trouble is....when I went through my bad patch I took a fair bit of abuse about my bad play and I now have a couple of players who STALK me.

They sit at my table with a bigger roll and tease me to go allin, so unless ive got a hand im blinding away.

Just ignore the stalking. If you find this difficult, then either turn the chatbox off when they are at your table, or try a different site. If it's blondepokerleague, then ask Aaron 'The Baron' to keep an eye on them to make sure they're not overstepping the mark.

If they're stalking with the intent to clean you out rather than goad you, then there isn't much you can do except try and avoid them (assuming that they are sharks that is).

To be honest though, unless there's a bunch of them, I can't really see this being too much of a problem on a ten handed table.

I have moved up to 50/1 and I know i have FISH written all over me but these (2 guys) are basically bullying me into playing iffy hands and then slagging me off big time when they hit.

This was a bad idea. You clearly weren't comfortable with the move. If anything, you should have moved down and then worked your way back up once you regained your confidence and began to see consistent profits.

If they are bullying you into playing iffy hands, then you have no one to blame but yourself. In the end, they can't make you press any buttons. Focus, play your own game, and don't let them get to you.

If they are slagging you off, then report their asses and aim to get them banned.

I enjoy playing cash but this has dented my confidence.

If players are looking for me it must mean im a soft target??

So should I give it up for a while?

Yes, your confidence is down, and I doubt you're in the correct frame of mind when you sit down. Starting a session thinking you're going to lose is probably the best way towards actually losing.

Take a rest period. Read some books, scour the blonde basement for advice, ask people what they think, watch poker night live for tips, text people questions... just do whatever you can to improve your game, and, once you feel it has improved, go back and try again.. hopefully refreshed and rejuvinated.

Good luck