The God Delusion - by Richard Dawkins

[fearisthekey]

neither of my kids are christened and my wife is happy with that too thank god. 
I tell my seven year old that god is made up but santa is real. presents are proof and, until there's evidence to the contrary santa is a good theory.
My daughter loves to sing and when I catch her singing a song she's picked up at school, thanking jesus for her house or the food on her table I tell her she wants to be praising me as it's me providing those things. now, go and get daddy a beer from the fridge

 

corker.

Here's a good piece on Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBZQfAYfH7s

I love the American Beauty skit. Some good stuff on evolution at the end, and it is the closest idea we have yet of how the Big Bang occurred.

------
I agree that the Dawkins books are good, actually I think they are a must read. I would also recommend 'Masks of the Universe' by Edward Harrison, an astounding read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Masks-Universe-Changing-Nature-Cosmos/dp/0521773512/ref=sr_1_3/202-4649354-5991850?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182855617&sr=8-3

There is plenty of stuff on the web also:

http://www.infidels.org/library/

-------------
When embarking on a relationship I think it is important to make sure you are both on the same track, religiously. I met a couple recently, quite young, with 3 kids. Everything had gone well. Last year, however, she had turned into a total religious nut. You could see the pain on the poor guy's face. Church every day and regular religious home schooling. Statues everywhere and holy water in all the rooms. Despite her husband not having any religious convicitons. Apart from wanting to crucify his wife.

[Acidmouse]

My Dad goes to church every Sunday, he believes in God. I went to Catholic schools and was brought up a Catholic.

Very Siminlar to Red not once has my Dad talked to me about God or religion, he's very private about it and does not impose his personal believes on anyone else. I respect him for this and just wish everyone else was the same.

[fearisthekey]

neither of my kids are christened and my wife is happy with that too thank god. 
I tell my seven year old that god is made up but santa is real. presents are proof and, until there's evidence to the contrary santa is a good theory.
My daughter loves to sing and when I catch her singing a song she's picked up at school, thanking jesus for her house or the food on her table I tell her she wants to be praising me as it's me providing those things. now, go and get daddy a beer from the fridge

Let me run this one by you. Your wife's mum is very religious, and is aware of the above arrangement (non-christening). She and grandad offer to look after the kids one Saturday. Then, they take the kids away in secret to a pre-arranged church and have them baptized without you knowing about it. How would you react?
This happened to someone close to me. I would be pretty enraged, to say the least.

[Claw75]

neither of my kids are christened and my wife is happy with that too thank god. 
I tell my seven year old that god is made up but santa is real. presents are proof and, until there's evidence to the contrary santa is a good theory.
My daughter loves to sing and when I catch her singing a song she's picked up at school, thanking jesus for her house or the food on her table I tell her she wants to be praising me as it's me providing those things. now, go and get daddy a beer from the fridge

Let me run this one by you. Your wife's mum is very religious, and is aware of the above arrangement (non-christening). She and grandad offer to look after the kids one Saturday. Then, they take the kids away in secret to a pre-arranged church and have them baptized without you knowing about it. How would you react?
This happened to someone close to me. I would be pretty enraged, to say the least.

I don't think I'd ever talk to them again - absolutely bang out of order.

I was brought up catholic and my husband was brought up methodist.  Neither of us are religious now, and both describe ourselves as atheists.  When our daughter came along we opted for a civil naming ceremony, so she could have her special day.  In place of godparents, we had 'supporting adults' and we chose hubby's sister and husband for this role.  I was pretty peeved, given that we had clearly chosen to have no religious aspect to the day, that the present our daughter got from her 'supporting adults' was a book of bible stories.  To me that was an insult, and akin to me buying their child a copy of the god delusion as a Christening gift

Suffice to say I've not read any of the stories to my daughter yet, but if she does pick up the book and show an interest in it later on I'll explain religion to her and what some people believe and give her the facts.  She can make her own mind up when she's old enough whether she chooses to believe in God or not.

[AndrewT]

Suffice to say I've not read any of the stories to my daughter yet, but if she does pick up the book and show an interest in it later on I'll explain religion to her and what some people believe and give her the facts.  She can make her own mind up when she's old enough whether she chooses to believe in God or not.

There's nothing wrong with the Bible as a work of fiction. The Old Testament in particular is like an X-rated Eastenders - great soap stories.

[The Baron]

Yes, people are liable to start wars with people they view as different. So why introduce another, arbitrary, difference between groups and give them something else to kill each other about?

By this school of thought should we have seperate countries? Why have another arbitrary difference between groups that can give them something to kill each other over?

In the fullness of time, hopefully not. Europe used to be regularly ravaged by war but now, as national borders have come down, and we realise our similarities are greater than our differences, we've stopped killing each other.

The fact that I said "countries" is arbitrary. We should have nothing that seperates us into different groups just in case...

[happybhoy]

Let me run this one by you. Your wife's mum is very religious, and is aware of the above arrangement (non-christening). She and grandad offer to look after the kids one Saturday. Then, they take the kids away in secret to a pre-arranged church and have them baptized without you knowing about it. How would you react?

Biblically

[Claw75]

Suffice to say I've not read any of the stories to my daughter yet, but if she does pick up the book and show an interest in it later on I'll explain religion to her and what some people believe and give her the facts.  She can make her own mind up when she's old enough whether she chooses to believe in God or not.

There's nothing wrong with the Bible as a work of fiction. The Old Testament in particular is like an X-rated Eastenders - great soap stories.

i agree, and i'm sure there are some good morals to be learnt from some of the stories, but still an inappropriate gift for the occasion I thought.

[AndrewT]

Suffice to say I've not read any of the stories to my daughter yet, but if she does pick up the book and show an interest in it later on I'll explain religion to her and what some people believe and give her the facts.  She can make her own mind up when she's old enough whether she chooses to believe in God or not.

There's nothing wrong with the Bible as a work of fiction. The Old Testament in particular is like an X-rated Eastenders - great soap stories.

i agree, and i'm sure there are some good morals to be learnt from some of the stories, but still an inappropriate gift for the occasion I thought.

I suppose it would be like me giving a copy of the God Delusion to a child as a communion gift.

Which would be exactly the sort of thing I'd do

And there are only really good morals in the New Testament - the Old Testament has the morals of a sociopath.

[Claw75]

Suffice to say I've not read any of the stories to my daughter yet, but if she does pick up the book and show an interest in it later on I'll explain religion to her and what some people believe and give her the facts.  She can make her own mind up when she's old enough whether she chooses to believe in God or not.

There's nothing wrong with the Bible as a work of fiction. The Old Testament in particular is like an X-rated Eastenders - great soap stories.

i agree, and i'm sure there are some good morals to be learnt from some of the stories, but still an inappropriate gift for the occasion I thought.

I suppose it would be like me giving a copy of the God Delusion to a child as a communion gift.

Which would be exactly the sort of thing I'd do

And there are only really good morals in the New Testament - the Old Testament has the morals of a sociopath.

To be honest, I haven't ever looked inside book my daughter was given, but would kind of hope that as a children's book it would only have the nice stories in it

Been thinking more about the situation above with the grandparents arranging the secret christening - it really would make my blood boil and I don't think I'd let my kids have much, if anything, to do with them in the future - they certainly wouldn't be seeing them unaccompanied ever again.

I am also, frankly, amazed that any priest or minister would agree to conduct such a ceremony without the parents' consent.  A strongly worded letter would be winging it's way to them too.

[AndrewT]

I am also, frankly, amazed that any priest or minister would agree to conduct such a ceremony without the parents' consent.  A strongly worded letter would be winging it's way to them too.

It certainly was endorsed by the church in the past.

In Italy, Jewish families didn't like employing Jewish nannies to look after their children because they wouldn't work on a Saturday. So they hired Catholic nannies instead. It was quite common for the nannies to whisk the baby away for a secret baptism by a priest or even for the child to be taken away permanently to be raised a Catholic.

In fact, you don't even need a priest to baptise someone - any baptised Catholic can do it. A few holy words, a little sprinkle of water and voila, instant Catholic.

Technically, I could be a freelance baptiser of heathens.

[kinboshi]

I am also, frankly, amazed that any priest or minister would agree to conduct such a ceremony without the parents' consent.  A strongly worded letter would be winging it's way to them too.

It certainly was endorsed by the church in the past.

In Italy, Jewish families didn't like employing Jewish nannies to look after their children because they wouldn't work on a Saturday. So they hired Catholic nannies instead. It was quite common for the nannies to whisk the baby away for a secret baptism by a priest or even for the child to be taken away permanently to be raised a Catholic.

In fact, you don't even need a priest to baptise someone - any baptised Catholic can do it. A few holy words, a little sprinkle of water and voila, instant Catholic.

Technically, I could be a freelance baptiser of heathens.

Instacatholic - surely?

[AndrewT]

Instacatholic - surely?

The instant Catholics broke away from the Instacatholics following a schism in 1476.

[kinboshi]

Instacatholic - surely?

The instant Catholics broke away from the Instacatholics following a schism in 1476.

Split pot? 

[Geo the Sarge]

I am also, frankly, amazed that any priest or minister would agree to conduct such a ceremony without the parents' consent.  A strongly worded letter would be winging it's way to them too.

It certainly was endorsed by the church in the past.

In Italy, Jewish families didn't like employing Jewish nannies to look after their children because they wouldn't work on a Saturday. So they hired Catholic nannies instead. It was quite common for the nannies to whisk the baby away for a secret baptism by a priest or even for the child to be taken away permanently to be raised a Catholic.

In fact, you don't even need a priest to baptise someone - any baptised Catholic can do it. A few holy words, a little sprinkle of water and voila, instant Catholic.

Technically, I could be a freelance baptiser of heathens.

Instacatholic Instacatholicaments  - surely?

FYP