DUSK TILL DAWN - HAVE YOUR SAY AT THE COURT HEARING..............

[colhandluke]

I would like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn because over in Belfast we can't get a good game of poker and have to go to England to get a game and i would rather not play in a casino where the temptation to lose money would be too great

Mal Dawson
Former Tournament Director - Winners club Belfast (closed down because of the greed of others)
Belfast

[DJKebab]

I would like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn because there is nowhere else in the UK to go and play what has become a very popular pastime throughout the country without having to be amongst table games with a house edge, and be subject to the promotions and influence of the companies trying to attract me to said games.

It would be SO refreshing to be able to play with like-minded others in a dedicated, safe and regulated environment free from distractions and profiteering.


Blair Kirkland,
IT Systems Analyst,
Glasgow.

[Robert HM]

I would very much like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn.

I am an amateur player but spend many hours studying the game and playing on line. I have played live poker in  many casinos as far apart as Scotland and Paris. However I dislike playing in most casinos where it is thinly disguised by the operators that poker players are simply put up with until they drift over to the house games. Recently I have stopped playing live for that reason though I will still play live if an interesting game is put on locally. I do not play house games as I am fully aware of the house edge.

Dusk Till Dawn offers the opportunity for many players like me to socialise and pit their wits with other players, amateur and professional alike. There is no other establishment able to provide the game structure, facilities and atmosphere proposed by this club.

I fully support Mr Yong's application and sincerely hope he will be successful. If granted I will be visiting my home town far more frequently. Please recognise that not only will this club be a poker flagship in the UK but will also attract players from other countries. Nottingham will be proud to be the centre of UK, possibly, European poker.

It is sad that those less interested in the game are objecting to the application when their main concern is loss of revenue from games not offered by Dusk Till Dawn. Just as in any group of people there are poker players who also like a wager on the roulette or blackjack tables, they will, no doubt, continue to frequent the casinos but Dusk Till Dawn will be the choice of the pure poker player.

K Robert Hardy-McBride
Solicitor
Woldingham, Surrey

[Jinky04]

Dear Sirs,

Poker, as a game both mathematically and academically recognised as compromising, ultimately, skill, should not, ideally, be subject to the same gaming laws as activities such as roulette, blackjack and the usual casino fare.

Unfortunately, in the UK they are. As such, clubs such as Dusk til Dawn, whose management have diligently met every standard thus far required of them by the Gaming Board, find themselves under pressure from oligopolies. These oligopolies are, very properly, licensed, as gambling does have an addictive element, not so neurologically different from opiates or indeed cocaine. However, the key difference between the major casino chains ( such as Stanley, Gala etc) and Dusk til Dawn, is not in the 'product' they ultimately offer, but in where their revenues derive from and what they ultimately offer.

In a casino, the 'punter' effectively plays the house in a zero-sum game, irrespective of what game they play. In poker clubs, such as Dusk til Dawn, revenues come from very limited (and explicitly agreed) fees, but mostly from the bars and resteraunt present. In terms of margins, traditional casinos already have a vast advantage...

Dusk til Dawn matters in this case, at it gives the courts the opportunity to recognise that 'gambling' is not necessarily a degenerate nor indeed irrational activity, as currently covered by law.

 Please do not deny the UK's massive poker playing community this exceedingly, possibly exceptional, opportunity to enjoy an experience catered to their own needs, outwith the casinos.

Chris Johnstone MA
MSc Economics Student (fees paid courtesy of poker!)
Glasgow

[SQ]

I would love to play at dusk till dawn because I want to play and learn about poker in a poker environment. Rob and his team have put a lot of hard work and money into creating the best poker club in Europe, and if given their license will bring money and prestige to Nottingham. It's a no brainer really. Grant the license!

Andy Hayton

[pmdpmd]

I would like to add my support for the proposed live poker venue Dusk Til Dawn.  Encouraging people to play in a live environment rather than online will allow the management to better implement the principles of the Gambling Act 2005, ensuring for example that players play within their means, preventing children from playing (with other people's identities), and ensuring the games are conducted in a fair and open manner.

I also would like to endorse what many others have said that it can only be a positive thing to allow people to play poker in an environment where there are no gambling games available.

Paul McDonnell
Company Director
Oxford

[HaworthBantam]

I would like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn because it will be a welcome change to play at a venue that puts the customer's needs and wishes first, rather than the normal casino view of putting up with card players and hoping that their badly structured poker tournaments will eventually drive those players to their profit making tables and flashing machines.

I understand that the main objections (apologies if this is untrue) to the opening of Dusk Till Dawn are coming from existing casinos. If the courts close DTD before it opens then they'll be proving that customer choice means nothing to them, setting a precedent that could impact on any new venture, regardless of industry.....

Let's see some common sense.


Ian Burnett

[madharper]

I would like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn because DTD is going to be an amazing venue: a poker club run BY players FOR players. For DTD's owners, poker is a passion which they share with their prospective members. The casino environment encourages you to gamble - that is a casino's sole purpose - to take punters' money; poker is entirely different - it's about fair and open competition. Like any other sport, it's a game of skill. It is fun. It is social. Do backgammon clubs or bridge clubs need a casino licence? I have no idea but I think it's unlikely. There is certainly an element of luck in poker, no doubt about it ... but this is a tiny factor compared to the importance of skill and experience.
Ccasinos attract gamblers; poker attracts competitors. It's as simple as that and there is no comparison or common ground between the two. It is ludicrous that poker is still subject to the same laws as gaming and I urge Nottingham's magistrates to take a bold step on September 24 and officially recognise that poker and gaming are NOT the same.
If Dusk Till Dawn was being set up by a casino company, its motives might be more suspect. Casinos provide poker rooms but they are generally acknowledged loss leaders ... merely a device for pulling in players who might then later be tempted to wander over to the roulette and blackjack tables and lose money. Or, while the poker player is sitting at his table in the poker room, his partner or friends while away their time at the gaming tables (and lose money). DTD, however, is being set up by a group of poker players. They are absolutely 100% dedicated to the game and their only goal is to provide a safe, clean and appealing environment for poker enthusiasts from all over the UK to pursue their interest.

[The Chuckle]

If I wanted to learn about becoming a champion rower, I'd speak Redgrave. If I wanted to become a successful businessman I'd listen to Gates, Sugar or Branson. If I wanted to be a politician I'd be learning about Lincoln and Churchill.

If I wanted to do anything (including playing live poker - as a beginner, intermediate or seasoned pro) - I'd want to be involved with people I could trust, people with passion, dedication and knowledge.

Why in my right mind would I want to be involved with people who could provide some of what I want but were more interested in selling me something that I don't want or need?

Kevin Ryan
Company Director
Redditch
Worcestershire

[h]

I would like to play at Dusk till Dawn as a poker only venue
I play regularly on line with low stakes but would like to experience live games in a regulated environment
The only live poker experience i have had has been in unregulated games which are probably illegal
I believe dtd as a live venue would give me the opportunity to develop my playing ability in a game i consider to be part skill part luck i view it as a hobby
and welcome the opportunity to play in a non casino but regulated environment

Hugh Black

Logistics & Planning Manager
Leighton Buzzard
Bedfordshire
 
Posted on: August 09, 2007, 05:01:2

[Brian Johnson]

I’m glad to have a forum to express my full support for the proposed dedicated card room Dusk Till Dawn, for the following reasons:

1) The “concept” of a dedicated, fully licensed poker room is in fact a well-established and successful business model, posing no new threat of gaming abuse or gambling addiction. As a native Californian, I have seen first-hand the development of such card rooms into the largest dedicated poker venues in the world, providing a safe, secure, fully-licensed and well-supported environment – all without the enticements of house games. Throughout the years, these card rooms have been very successful commercially as well as in providing the best in poker events. Why?  Simply, because they are run by people who are certainly profit-conscious but who are also poker enthusiasts themselves. This distinction from casinos means that the service provided is managed by people with the knowledge and interest in the game-of-skill to ensure a well-run and first-rate operation, specifically with the poker player in mind.  Such a service is not always guaranteed in casino poker rooms, where the dealers can be – and sometimes are – ill-trained, under-motivated and supported by management who do not fully appreciate the rules of the game nor the customers they serve.

2) I know the management of Dusk Till Dawn to be trustworthy and reliable, with demonstrated business acumen. Furthermore, they are all well-respected poker enthusiasts and I have every confidence in their abilities to ensure the very best service. So much so, I plan to support their club even though I live in London.

3) I understand that there have been formal objections to the opening of this card room from casinos. This is non-sense as it restricts competition and allows them to trade “as-is” in a market environment which has seen the clear emergence and evolution of poker. While some casinos have dramatically improved their poker product to reflect the market trends, others clearly have not. The poker rooms in some casinos remain are too small, the dealers moved over from house games with insufficient training and the end result can be an inadequate offering.  In fact, the full-service casinos have less to fear and more to gain from this new card room: those which see the added-value in poker are already providing improved services, expanded facilities and a surge in poker-generated revenue. The advent of online poker and televised tournaments has brought the game out of the backrooms into the spotlight as a mainstream sporting attraction, bringing in a new player-base, sanitized brand image and even new variations of the game.  All venues – casinos and poker rooms alike – can benefit from a competitive, market-driven environment. As a dedicated, fully-licensed poker room, Dusk Till Dawn can help show the way in offering what the players really want. The quality casinos should welcome Dusk Till Dawn’s expertise and commitment to bettering tournament and cash play. It can only serve to help the casinos with their own schedules and events.

4) The management of Dusk Till Dawn have done a phenomenal job in investing into this proposed card room: from pre-launch marketing to supporting events through sponsorship to developing a first-class online product to hiring top-notch staff/players. I, along with many, fully support their venture -- which will be beneficial to the local community as well as to the general poker community at large.

Brian Johnson
CEO
London

[Simon Zach]

I am in favour of Dusk till Dawn opening a card room for many reasons and mention below some that i consider to be the most important.

  Dedicated card room where poker will be the first priority instead of the last, as is in every casino around the UK, where poker is used as a tool to coax people into the casino in the hope that they will play  tables or fruit machines.

  The size will make the card room the largest in Europe and should attract players for all over the Globe hosting some of Europe’s largest games.

  Availability to play live a wide selection of poker games only currently available to UK players via the internet.

Players consider poker globally as a sport, we have a

Wembley
a
Twickenham
a
Lords
a
Wimbledon

we need a Dusk Till Dawn

Simon Zach

[The Sherriff]

I welcome the move by Dusk Til Dawn to open a club dedicated to the needs of poker players.

The casino environment has never been conducive to staging quality poker tournaments as they dedicate their resources to making their money from the table games and not from providing a poker player with the facilities that they warrant.

An increase in the number of regulated, safe and enjoyable environments that we can play poker in is to be strongly encouraged.

I welcome the day when the 'monopoly' held by the casinos with regard to poker competitions is broken and this industry can grow as demand dictates.

I will travel regularly to the Nottingham club despite the 150 mile journey.

Nick Gibson

[GP1]

I would like to play poker at Dusk Till Dawn because I believe there is substantial demand for a Poker only venue both as a local dedicated venue in Nottingham, but also as a destination poker club for UK, Europe and International poker players. This allows players of all abilities to play in a dedicated venue free from other casino games and also away from the central Nottingham Casino's that frequently consist of players entering at the end of a long evenings drinking.

Gary Pearce
Managing Director
Nottingham

[WoollyT]

I would like to play at Dusk Till Dawn because for the first time ever, Poker Players will have an opportunity to receive a fair deal in bespoke premises operated by a Player-Friendly Management. DTD will offer a dedicated environment which will not attempt, as Casino premises do, to seduce players into playing house games at which they will invariably lose money.
Having played poker in more than 100 different locations on 3 Continents I believe I am qualified to speak on behalf of all players when I say that it's time that a fair-minded and enthusiastic Company be given the opportunity to show just how good it will be to play in a  spacious, secure and dedicated premises.

Tom Gibson
107 Leek Road
ST4 2BW