England/Croatia thread

[kinboshi]

People can say what they like about Beckham but he didn't quit when he was dropped.
He's also set up more England goals in the past 12 months than SWP will in his career.

You could argue Beckham did quit England when he went to play in America. 

mclaren made it clear beckham wouldnt play again for england so beckahm didnt quit he went on got on with his life

england called him back after a year out and he jumped at the chance but it was too late to do anything about america

...and McClaren and Sven didn't make it clear that Carragher wasn't going to be playing for England over the past 4 years?  Like you said about Beckham, Carragher didn't quit or leave the team in the lurch.  He merely got on with his life.

carragher said "I AIN'T AVAILABLE" beckaham never did

The way he played in some games (not tonight), he should have.  McClaren stuck with Beckham in the team when he was injured or was simply not good enough.  We can remember the games when he carried England on his own (the game against Greece being one).  But for the past few years, he's been a passenger. 

Beckham never said that he wasn't available because he was likely to be selected.  Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

[Nem]

imo gerrard and lampard are world class and yes england has not seen enough of them being world class for whatever reason.

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

IMO Gerrard and Lampard have a lot to answer to with regards to England failing to qualify.

[Ironside]

Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

[kinboshi]

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

Didn't see that myself.  I've seen Gerrard run himself across every blade of grass for 90 minutes.  Tonight he was WAY off his imperious best.  On countless occasions I turned to Michelle and mentioned that Gerrard was jogging back rather than sprinting as he usually does.  He could and should have stopped the third goal by being in a position to stop the shot. 

Has he decided that England aren't good enough to win anything, and so he's not going to run himself into the ground or risk injury when he's in an England shirt?  It sure looked like it.

[TightEnd]

imo gerrard and lampard are world class and yes england has not seen enough of them being world class for whatever reason.

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

IMO Gerrard and Lampard have a lot to answer to with regards to England failing to qualify.

I agree with this, amongst many other failings in the team

[kinboshi]

Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

Brown, for one.  King on several occasions, one in particular when king wasn't fit. 

[kinboshi]

imo gerrard and lampard are world class and yes england has not seen enough of them being world class for whatever reason.

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

IMO Gerrard and Lampard have a lot to answer to with regards to England failing to qualify.

I agree with this, amongst many other failings in the team

Absolutely.  I don't think anyone can deny that although they've both had games for England when they've made the difference, they do it far more frequently for their club sides.  When a player who is that important and instrumental every week for their club can't perform for their country, questions have to be asked.  Both to the players and to the coach.

[Nem]

Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

Brown, for one.  King on several occasions, one in particular when king wasn't fit. 

Carragher will never be fit to lace Ledley Kings boots - DUCY?

An Rio is Englands best defender by a country mile.

Rio and Terry when fit and if King is fit he is the 3rd best (which is arguable)

[turny]

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

Didn't see that myself.  I've seen Gerrard run himself across every blade of grass for 90 minutes.  Tonight he was WAY off his imperious best.  On countless occasions I turned to Michelle and mentioned that Gerrard was jogging back rather than sprinting as he usually does.  He could and should have stopped the third goal by being in a position to stop the shot. 

Has he decided that England aren't good enough to win anything, and so he's not going to run himself into the ground or risk injury when he's in an England shirt?  It sure looked like it.

think your being other critical of him boshi though as you say u see him weak in weak out.

maybe it was bourne out of frustration looking round to see where barry was and seeing him out of position again.

barry was either to far forward or had dropped into the back four. the holding role is a fairly basic position to play but does require concentration and awareness. tonight barry had neither!

[CelticGeezeer]

I think Ruddock said it best when he said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80niZnYCB04

[kinboshi]

Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

Brown, for one.  King on several occasions, one in particular when king wasn't fit. 

Carragher will never be fit to lace Ledley Kings boots - DUCY?

- whatever.

An Rio is Englands best defender by a country mile.

Rio and Terry when fit and if King is fit he is the 3rd best (which is arguable)

[kinboshi]

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

Didn't see that myself.  I've seen Gerrard run himself across every blade of grass for 90 minutes.  Tonight he was WAY off his imperious best.  On countless occasions I turned to Michelle and mentioned that Gerrard was jogging back rather than sprinting as he usually does.  He could and should have stopped the third goal by being in a position to stop the shot. 

Has he decided that England aren't good enough to win anything, and so he's not going to run himself into the ground or risk injury when he's in an England shirt?  It sure looked like it.

think your being other critical of him boshi though as you say u see him weak in weak out.

maybe it was bourne out of frustration looking round to see where barry was and seeing him out of position again.

barry was either to far forward or had dropped into the back four. the holding role is a fairly basic position to play but does require concentration and awareness. tonight barry had neither!

Gerrard was shocking in the second half when Barry wasn't playing.  First half, what you're saying might carry weight.  But that doesn't account for his second half performance.  Which like I said, was only under-shadowed (if that was a word) by Richards and Bridge.

[turny]

Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

Brown, for one.  King on several occasions, one in particular when king wasn't fit. 

Carragher will never be fit to lace Ledley Kings boots - DUCY?

An Rio is Englands best defender by a country mile.

Rio and Terry when fit and if King is fit he is the 3rd best (which is arguable)

rio ferdinand is no way englands best defender imo.

and also i think king has alot to provre, living off overhype at a young age much like richards.

carragher a better replacement for terry than the rest of them imo

[kinboshi]

Agreed.  Terry is easily the first choice, and was long before he managed to get his place.  For too long he was behind Campbell and Ferdinand.

[turny]

bridge was awful tonight!

ashle cole was deemed fit enough to be named as a sub so why didnt he start?