two kings in the dee tee dee three hundred

[NigDawG]

only skimmed the thread but turning our hand into a bluff here is lol

[StuartHopkin]

only skimmed the thread but turning our hand into a bluff here is lol

Great contribution Chris

[NigDawG]

only skimmed the thread but turning our hand into a bluff here is lol

Great contribution Chris

lol sorry il try be more constructive... He is never folding a better hand than KK here but we might still have the best hand so we should just try to get to a cheap showdown IMO. It is the early stages of the deepstacked tourney we really have no need to be running this bluff or building a big pot here

[StuartHopkin]

only skimmed the thread but turning our hand into a bluff here is lol

Great contribution Chris

lol sorry il try be more constructive... He is never folding a better hand than KK here but we might still have the best hand so we should just try to get to a cheap showdown IMO. It is the early stages of the deepstacked tourney we really have no need to be running this bluff or building a big pot here

No worries!
Just one of those where Ive got it stuck in my head back to front.
The more people that explain why Im wrong the sooner I might believe them!

[StuartHopkin]

Can we have a bit more of the story Cf before I every bastard on the forum realises how shit I am!?

[NigDawG]

I mean you could bet if u want but it should be for value not as a bluff

[EvilPie]

I mean you could bet if u want but it should be for value not as a bluff

But at this stage that's really tough to do without some super reads on people.

Later on you might be able to get some value against someone who's flopped 2nd pair or maybe has a smaller pair than you but with the blinds this low there's probably only 1% of people who can actually squeeze some value out of.

[StuartHopkin]

I mean you could bet if u want but it should be for value not as a bluff

But at this stage that's really tough to do without some super reads on people.

Later on you might be able to get some value against someone who's flopped 2nd pair or maybe has a smaller pair than you but with the blinds this low there's probably only 1% of people who can actually squeeze some value out of.

Norrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr theres loads of people who would call with less and you know it. I would say there is only 1% of the 300 field that know whats going on.

[piestack]

i still agree with this hopkin fella and dont understand why you wouldnt bet for

i think your more likely to get some value on the turn from a worse hand, then to get someone to bluff the river if you check.

[StuartHopkin]

only skimmed the thread but turning our hand into a bluff here is lol

Great contribution Chris

lol sorry il try be more constructive... He is never folding a better hand than KK here but we might still have the best hand so we should just try to get to a cheap showdown IMO. It is the early stages of the deepstacked tourney we really have no need to be running this bluff or building a big pot here

Just re read and i dont think ive got my points or reasons across very clearly.

When i said turn into a 'bluff' i was meant betting the ace would probably get some of the draws to fold?
I never expected him to be folding if he holds an ace.
Its pretty dodgy board to be giving free cards away on?

[EvilPie]

So you're betting to protect KK against a board with some draws on it?

That makes more sense but what do you do if oppo raises on the flop like a lot would with a decent draw?

Are you then passing in case he has the ace which a lot of people would also check raise with?

If at any stage you're folding to any betting from your opponent then you are turning the hand in to a bluff.

If you know he's passive and will just call then you're ok but you don't know that yet.

What if oppo calls and then leads on a blank river? Do you assume he's missed his draw and call or that he's got the A so pass?

What if oppo calls the turn then checks a blank river? Are you then value betting the river in case he has an under pair and might call? What if you get check raised on a blank river? Then what?

There's just so many ways that this hand can go wrong it's not worth betting out.

Unless you're against a passive oppo who's just going to call you're achieving nothing. Unfortunately a passive is only calling with a hand that beats you so you achieve nothing.

[EvilPie]

i still agree with this hopkin fella and dont understand why you wouldnt bet for

i think your more likely to get some value on the turn from a worse hand, then to get someone to bluff the river if you check.

You've been told about this multi accounting before Hopkin!!! It's naughty!!!

[StuartHopkin]

So you're betting to protect KK against a board with some draws on it?

That makes more sense but what do you do if oppo raises on the flop like a lot would with a decent draw?

Are you then passing in case he has the ace which a lot of people would also check raise with?

If at any stage you're folding to any betting from your opponent then you are turning the hand in to a bluff.

If you know he's passive and will just call then you're ok but you don't know that yet.

What if oppo calls and then leads on a blank river? Do you assume he's missed his draw and call or that he's got the A so pass?

What if oppo calls the turn then checks a blank river? Are you then value betting the river in case he has an under pair and might call? What if you get check raised on a blank river? Then what?

There's just so many ways that this hand can go wrong it's not worth betting out.

Unless you're against a passive oppo who's just going to call you're achieving nothing. Unfortunately a passive is only calling with a hand that beats you so you achieve nothing.

Norr he cant check raise the flop because its the turn.
If he check raises me im folding.
If he calls and leads the river im folding.
Your over complicating.
Everyones shit, how can we lose?

[EvilPie]

So you're betting to protect KK against a board with some draws on it?

That makes more sense but what do you do if oppo raises on the flop like a lot would with a decent draw?

Are you then passing in case he has the ace which a lot of people would also check raise with?

If at any stage you're folding to any betting from your opponent then you are turning the hand in to a bluff.

If you know he's passive and will just call then you're ok but you don't know that yet.

What if oppo calls and then leads on a blank river? Do you assume he's missed his draw and call or that he's got the A so pass?

What if oppo calls the turn then checks a blank river? Are you then value betting the river in case he has an under pair and might call? What if you get check raised on a blank river? Then what?

There's just so many ways that this hand can go wrong it's not worth betting out.

Unless you're against a passive oppo who's just going to call you're achieving nothing. Unfortunately a passive is only calling with a hand that beats you so you achieve nothing.

Norr he cant check raise the flop because its the turn.
If he check raises me im folding.
If he calls and leads the river im folding.
Your over complicating.
Everyones shit, how can we lose?

So if he bets anything at all at any stage you lose the hand.

That means that your lead out line will only work against a hopeless passive or someone who has got absolutely nothing.

Therefore you are bluffing and should do the same thing with atc.

[piestack]

but you want him to call!

edit: oops wrong account