Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[pleno1]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=52628.0

[Woodsey]

America really is a strange place.

Also here's me thinking that a .com domain was a global one, when all this time it's only for the US.

And the fact that they keep repeatedly telling us they are the land of the free and all that bollocks.

[AndrewT]

isnt FT operations based somewhere out of N Ireland.
quote from stars.
"PokerStars is owned and operated by a legal entity licensed and located in the Isle Of Man (a crown dependency of the United Kingdom) and we pride ourselves in abiding by all relevant laws and regulations. The current situation about which you have inquired only impacts US Players."

regardless, they are both licensed to run in the UK

Tilt's operations are run out of Dublin.

Alderney and the Isle of Man are both on the white list of places where companies who are licenced can legally advertise in the UK. This is not the same as being licenced in the UK.

Both use the British government for defence and foreign policy so would look to our government to tell the usa to keep hands off

There are extradition treaties between the Isle of Man and the UK, and the UK and the USA. They would certainly look to the UK for help, but it might not happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_West_Three
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Mckinnon

[kinboshi]

Aren't they based outside the UK in order to avoid the tax implications of running their operations on UK soil (or is that bollocks)?

[AndrewT]

Aren't they based outside the UK in order to avoid the tax implications of running their operations on UK soil (or is that bollocks)?

Not bollocks at all - it's certainly one of the main reasons. The small jurisdictions offer very favourable tax systems to attract the business of internet companies whose operations are not dependent on location

[Marky147]

Sickest sweats for Bax and Sheets........

[doubleup]

looks like the big poker companies might have messed up pretty big. DOJ is charging them with bribing small banks who were in financial trouble into processing cashouts. Whether online poker is legal or not therefore becomes a moot point in the legal case. Fraud, money laundering and bribery are much more serious crimes. It seems odd for the site to have been so careless as to leave these dealing to be discovered (looks like some small banks have been turned into co-operators to avoid some charges) - so maybe there is more to the story. Its going to be enough to keep them locked in legal action for a long time though.
 

for non US player, id guess Stars will cover anyone's cash outs even if the money is tied up. The biggest risk I see is if stars/tilt have left too much money vulnerably and now don't have the liquidity to cover cash-outs even if their intention are to do so.

As for seizing non US based servers, companies or funds - cant see this happening. Stars and FT are fully licensed in the UK, hopefully our government has enough sense to not comply with the retarded US DOJ.

The whole thing is just a giant shakedown, US government dont want to drag this through court.

Please don't believe the spin of the USDOJ.

a)There is no legal certainty that offering internet poker is a federal offence.
b) If it isn't illegal then the UIGEA and money laundering charges are not relevant
c) The bank/processing charges might be relevant, but all we have is the spin from the DoJ, rather than hard evidence eg the "bribery" allegation seems like total spin.  If the poker and therefore the transactions were legal the purchase of the bank and its activities are red herrings.

Remember the US is still in breach of its trade treaty obligations in the online gambling market and frankly their behaviour in attempting to disrupt the activities of legitimate foreign businesses is quite disgraceful.

[KarmaDope]

FYI, FT are accepting withdrawal requests again.

Whether they go through or not is a second question...

[Longy]

FYI, FT are accepting withdrawal requests again.

Whether they go through or not is a second question...

My cashout today has been accepted so just a case of waiting to hit the bank, whereas my stars cashout is still processing.

Unfortunately 95% of my online roll is stars. I am pretty positive we are going to be ok in the UK, the bigger concern is where this is all going long term.

[Woodsey]

FYI, FT are accepting withdrawal requests again.

Whether they go through or not is a second question...

My cashout today has been accepted so just a case of waiting to hit the bank, whereas my stars cashout is still processing.

Unfortunately 95% of my online roll is stars. I am pretty positive we are going to be ok in the UK, the bigger concern is where this is all going long term.

Look on the bright side. The games will probably be significantly softer without the US players, no?

[Blackbeard]

FYI, FT are accepting withdrawal requests again.

Whether they go through or not is a second question...

My cashout today has been accepted so just a case of waiting to hit the bank, whereas my stars cashout is still processing.

Unfortunately 95% of my online roll is stars. I am pretty positive we are going to be ok in the UK, the bigger concern is where this is all going long term.

Look on the bright side. The games will probably be significantly softer without the US players

Still massive traffic on stars ( compared to other euro sites)  Guarantees will be slightly lower but still bigger than anywhere else. Maybe they will become more euro friendly now

[KarmaDope]

FYI, FT are accepting withdrawal requests again.

Whether they go through or not is a second question...

My cashout today has been accepted so just a case of waiting to hit the bank, whereas my stars cashout is still processing.

Unfortunately 95% of my online roll is stars. I am pretty positive we are going to be ok in the UK, the bigger concern is where this is all going long term.

Look on the bright side. The games will probably be significantly softer without the US players, no?

Mine's processing but that's ok. I wanted to get my cash off Tilt and into Stars so this has given me a reason to do it. Just might hold off putting it into Stars until we get a clearer picture.

Been playing a few MTTSNGs today and they are slower to fill but still pretty quick. Liquidity has all but disappeared above approximately $20 though apart from a few 18 mans.

ETA: I think this is gonna hurt the MTTSNG players more than anything. Cash players/MTT guys can play on any site - apart from Stars/Tilt no other sites have any decent MTTSNG's. Even Stars.FR doesn't have any decent games.

[Longy]

Woodsey- Yes i think the games will be softer, if the most likely scenario plays out (business as usual outside the US). I am going to be one of the hardest affected grinders as my games rely on having lots of traffic, it takes a while to fill mttsngs.

Blackbeard- Yeah this time of day is going to be the least affected as we are entering euro peak times. After 10-11pm we are going to see big drops in traffic imo.

[KarmaDope]

Woodsey- Yes i think the games will be softer, if the most likely scenario plays out (business as usual outside the US). I am going to be one of the hardest affected grinders as my games rely on having lots of traffic, it takes a while to fill mttsngs.

Blackbeard- Yeah this time of day is going to be the least affected as we are entering euro peak times. After 10-11pm we are going to see big drops in traffic imo.

18 mans seem the best way to go atm.

[paulhouk03]

feels like poker has gone back 5 years its amazing

the prizepool is smaller but the standard is really really bad