1/2 with the Doncaster boys

[SuuPRlim]

surely dave, (playing devils advocate here as I know you agreed with me in the first place) the whole "better spots" argument is a logical fallacy in cash games. Why pass up a +EV spot now just because it's only marginally +EV and high variance? Yes, you can wait for better spots, but you'll still be privvy to those spots even if you get stacked here.

If you can have this game, like this for the rest of the week, 40 hours or so then yes go ahead and take every bit of EV going cos, well it's plus EV. However games like this are sick for 3-4hours, then they die off, and we don't know when and if they will star up again. So when you're effectively playing a much higher game than normal, in circumstances that are unusual you don't want to be nipping every slice of EV going. We don't ever WANT to take thin EV spots, but we do often for many strategic reasons, here there is completely no need.

So for me I'm interested in the solid, mega profitable spots (i.e when I have AJ on J74) where I know I'm printing money, not too bother about marginal +EV bet/calls because I could do them all week vs Mitch at 1/2.

people who don't play a lot of live poker will think I'm mental, but when you cant play 50,000 hands in a month its essential for your sanity you try protect yourself vs un-need variance where you can imo. and in games where people will double you up when you hit a decent top pair and they have anything, this seems like a perfect spot to be doing this.

[cambridgealex]

but you can do that as well.

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

If you're rolled for it, can take the swings and the variance and you LOVETHEGAME, why not go for both?!

Also, he stacks you, he'll be sat deeper and you can reload to cover him then get it all back in one foul swoop!

[smashedagain]

but you can do that as well.

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

If you're rolled for it, can take the swings and the variance and you LOVETHEGAME, why not go for both?!

Also, he stacks you, he'll be sat deeper and you can reload to cover him then get it all back in one foul swoop!

Thats if you can get in a hand  with him before Mitch or Keith does obv

[cambridgealex]

but you can do that as well.

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

If you're rolled for it, can take the swings and the variance and you LOVETHEGAME, why not go for both?!

Also, he stacks you, he'll be sat deeper and you can reload to cover him then get it all back in one foul swoop!

Thats if you can get in a hand  with him before Mitch or Keith does obv

haha,we actually nicked him from peejays game and started a 2/5 just nextdoor

[smashedagain]

but you can do that as well.

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

If you're rolled for it, can take the swings and the variance and you LOVETHEGAME, why not go for both?!

Also, he stacks you, he'll be sat deeper and you can reload to cover him then get it all back in one foul swoop!

Thats if you can get in a hand  with him before Mitch or Keith does obv

haha,we actually nicked him from peejays game and started a 2/5 just nextdoor

lol. Ruthless

[Mondeoman]

The whole waiting for better spots point I used to think was fish thinking but sometimes is relevant.  I think its relevant where if a fish doubles up from say £4k to £8k they will lock up/leave/get off tilt sometimes its not worth taking a high variance line.  This prob doesnt apply here though.

In the hand you should either 3 bet smaller or bigger.  As you realised youve left yourself with a tricky pot to stack ratio.  Don't really like shoving as you're never folding out a better hand and very rarely getting called by worse.  Think checking back flop/picking off bluffs is prob optimal option.
Flatting the raise pre is a bad idea as you want to isolate the hand to HU.

[TightEnd]

Doncaster a wealthy place? I never knew

[SuuPRlim]

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

you don't make £420 though do you? you either make £0, win £800 or lose £800. there is no EV here, if you win the hand you win if you lose you lose lol if this is an unusual game which doesn't happen all that often.

I dont think of it as "waiting for better spots" I see it as you're only going to get 3 (maximum 4) "spots" so don't bother with tiny edges, just hold on for big sot or go home even imo.

Obviously this doesn't apply if this game with these guys runs all the time, then you should wanna gamble (and be seen gambling) in spots like this.

[Mondeoman]

I'm with Al on this one I think as long as youve got $ to reload you should take the small edges.
If you could take a +20 spot and run it a thousand times you would - just because you're only running it once and the outcome wont be Plus 20 doesnt mean the underlying maths aren't working here.

In fact I would always take an even money flip because i think i'll handle the emotional effects of the variance better, and other players like playing with people who will "give them a chance" - if somebody keeps getting it in and they're drawing dead eventually they are going to stop wanting to play with you.

[cambridgealex]

Say the EV of this bet/call people are suggesting is like +£20.

Or you can wait for another hand when you get AQ and it comes Q82 and you get stacks in. EV = £400 let's say.

Or you can have both and make £420

you don't make £420 though do you? you either make £0, win £800 or lose £800. there is no EV here, if you win the hand you win if you lose you lose lol if this is an unusual game which doesn't happen all that often.

I dont think of it as "waiting for better spots" I see it as you're only going to get 3 (maximum 4) "spots" so don't bother with tiny edges, just hold on for big sot or go home even imo.

Obviously this doesn't apply if this game with these guys runs all the time, then you should wanna gamble (and be seen gambling) in spots like this.

Some good points there Rob.

[SuuPRlim]

I'm with Al on this one I think as long as youve got $ to reload you should take the small edges.
If you could take a +20 spot and run it a thousand times you would - just because you're only running it once and the the outcome wont be Plus 20 doesnt mean the underlying maths aren't working here.

In fact I would always take an even money flip because i think i'll handle the emotional effects of the variance better and other players like playing with people who will "give them a chance" - if somebody keeps getting it in and they're drawing dead eventually they are going to stop wanting to play with you.

yh I agree but you're missing one vital point, this is basically a one off game, it's playing way bigger than 1/2 and way more action that usual (unless I'm wrong and misjudging the situation?) so if this game would run with this much action for lots of days I'd be getting in and gambling with the boys all I could. However it isn't, so I don't think it's optimal. I think you're going to get 2 or 3 good spots and you should take them and dismiss the marginal ones because they are so detrimental to your session if they go against you.

and burrrrrn with you're Rob comments goulder!

Basically if you're regular game is 50/1 and 1/2 and you get into a violently swingy game I'd be looking to play it uber cautious over embracing variance as the effects off it going badly will often be worse than the benefits of it going well. If you're regular game is 10/20 then obviously that wouldn't be a point of contention in this example.

[cambridgealex]

Why is losing a marginal one so detrimental to your session?

[SuuPRlim]

Why is losing a marginal one so detrimental to your session?

I know nothing about Peejay btw so this isn't him as an example but I'm assuming this is pretty relevant to most of the DTD games.

Apparently these doncaster lot come into town rarely but when they do it's mental stuff and the variance is high. so 1/2 effectively becomes 2/5 or 3/6 but it's a great spot to play ofc. However they're around for 4 hours or so, so can expect about 100 hands. If you take 3 marginal spots you're basically flipping (albeit with a small edge no doubt), at higher than average stakes for 600big blinds. You could lose all 3, easily could happen (you could also win all three)

Spose you lose all three, lose 600big blinds, you now have to return to the regular games, where winning 600big blinds takes a good bit of time unless the games get really good (no way to expect that though) Very tilting, bad for morale and a small hit to the bankroll.

Spose you win all three. Great, 600big blinds, how happy are you, worth risking ^^^ for? If you're playing way into your average stakes then yh prolly, but games bigger and better than this don't run hardly ever at DTD amirite?

It's just a different part of game selecting imo, I've sat out of sick 10/20 games online this month because they just don't run often enough when they are good and all I need to do is run bad and i'll undo 2 weeks grinding at 1/2 - 3/6 just really bad for morale + If I had a sicck session and won $10k and be far less happy than how tilted I'd be if I lost $10k and ruined my HEM graph.

That's why I'd be looking not to take marginal spots on in this specific spot. Like I've said, if this game with this much action ran all the time I'd merrily gamble it up, because it's a)non eploitable and b) good for your image but in what is basically a one off I'll just wait till I have a top pair.

[pleno1]

but what about when we win the high variance plusssss ev spot, morale is high and we go to marbella with the boys and rub fiddys on our tiddys. feels alot better than having to grind feels bad.

[cambridgealex]

Why is losing a marginal one so detrimental to your session?

I know nothing about Peejay btw so this isn't him as an example but I'm assuming this is pretty relevant to most of the DTD games.

Apparently these doncaster lot come into town rarely but when they do it's mental stuff and the variance is high. so 1/2 effectively becomes 2/5 or 3/6 but it's a great spot to play ofc. However they're around for 4 hours or so, so can expect about 100 hands. If you take 3 marginal spots you're basically flipping (albeit with a small edge no doubt), at higher than average stakes for 600big blinds. You could lose all 3, easily could happen (you could also win all three)

Spose you lose all three, lose 600big blinds, you now have to return to the regular games, where winning 600big blinds takes a good bit of time unless the games get really good (no way to expect that though) Very tilting, bad for morale and a small hit to the bankroll.

Spose you win all three. Great, 600big blinds, how happy are you, worth risking ^^^ for? If you're playing way into your average stakes then yh prolly, but games bigger and better than this don't run hardly ever at DTD amirite?

It's just a different part of game selecting imo, I've sat out of sick 10/20 games online this month because they just don't run often enough when they are good and all I need to do is run bad and i'll undo 2 weeks grinding at 1/2 - 3/6 just really bad for morale + If I had a sicck session and won $10k and be far less happy than how tilted I'd be if I lost $10k and ruined my HEM graph.

That's why I'd be looking not to take marginal spots on in this specific spot. Like I've said, if this game with this much action ran all the time I'd merrily gamble it up, because it's a)non eploitable and b) good for your image but in what is basically a one off I'll just wait till I have a top pair.

That is interesting. I always feel like a pussy for thinking things like that (like the bolded bit)

E.g. I left the 2/5 early on saturday cos it was getting too big, the donny lads had gone home, and although it was still a good game I was sat with 5k and was covered in a couple of spots - if I'd been stacked it would've been disastrous for morale, and the fear of that, would've made me play bad - so I booked the win.

But I always get ripped for that sort of mentality