Jeremy Clarkson on Airport Immgration Delays

[MANTIS01]

Still don't understand why there's this clamour for immigrants (or anyone living here really)  to integrate.

What is 'integration' anyway?

Integration is trust no?

[kinboshi]

Still don't understand why there's this clamour for immigrants (or anyone living here really)  to integrate.

What is 'integration' anyway?

Integration is trust no?

So the immigrants need to trust people? Still don't understand, sorry.

[Geo the Sarge]

Still don't understand why there's this clamour for immigrants (or anyone living here really)  to integrate.

What is 'integration' anyway?

Integration is trust no?

So the immigrants need to trust people? Still don't understand, sorry.

My understanding of what Mantis is saying is trust between immigrants and indigenous aids integration...................

Geo

[kinboshi]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?

If someone obeys the laws of the land, doesn't impede with anyone else's rights, how must they be integrated? That goes for people born here or those who have come to the country from elsewhere, and goes for all ethnicities.

[Jon MW]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?
...

I think learning the language of the country you're living in is the only element of integration that I think really gets in the way of good relations between immigrants and the wider community. If this was universal it would solve a lot of the problems which aren't actually caused by racism.

[MANTIS01]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?

If someone obeys the laws of the land, doesn't impede with anyone else's rights, how must they be integrated? That goes for people born here or those who have come to the country from elsewhere, and goes for all ethnicities.

Didn't you live in Japan for a time Kin? Did you get off the plane and get snap accepted by everyone immediately. Or is it the case that as time went by you worked at relationships, picked up bits of language, immersed yourself into the food and culture? Thus is it fair to say KINBOSHI that by the time you left Japan you were a little bit more Japanese than when you first arrived? That is the process of integration.

I know when I lived in Hong Kong this is exactly what happened to me. At the end of my time there I was elbowing people out of my way getting onto the tube, degening with the best of them at Happy Valley, learning about Buddism, and eating grasshoppers on sticks for my tea. So by the time I left I was a bit more Chinese than when I arrived. That is the process of integration.

Sure, we both could have been law abiding and retained our complete Britishness. We could have demanded fish and chips for dinner and refused to try and learn the language. We could have wore bowler hats when we walked down the street. Do you think this would have made our experiences better and more fulfilling? Was the process of integration and acceptance easier because we tried? The term 'When in Rome' has a lot of validity when considering the subject of integration don't you think?

[kinboshi]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?
...

I think learning the language of the country you're living in is the only element of integration that I think really gets in the way of good relations between immigrants and the wider community. If this was universal it would solve a lot of the problems which aren't actually caused by racism.

 

Lots of British ex-pats go and live in other countries (e.g. Spain or Dubai) without attempting to learn the native language, and they can function there perfectly well without a clamour for them to 'integrate'.Or am I wrong? I agree that learning the native language makes a lot of sense to make life easier for the immigrant, but it's not universally essential.

[MANTIS01]

Sure, I agree. But I asked if that was your approach in Japan and whether your experience was more or less fulfilling because of it. And whether you found acceptance easier to come by because of it.

[kinboshi]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?

If someone obeys the laws of the land, doesn't impede with anyone else's rights, how must they be integrated? That goes for people born here or those who have come to the country from elsewhere, and goes for all ethnicities.

Didn't you live in Japan for a time Kin? Did you get off the plane and get snap accepted by everyone immediately. Or is it the case that as time went by you worked at relationships, picked up bits of language, immersed yourself into the food and culture? Thus is it fair to say KINBOSHI that by the time you left Japan you were a little bit more Japanese than when you first arrived? That is the process of integration.

I went over to Japan to work in an international relations office, and the plan was to learn about Japan and improve my Japanese.

I definitely went out there to integrate to a degree. But it wasn't necessary or enforced. I know a lot of people over there who stayed within an ex-pat community and they got by perfectly well.

I know when I lived in Hong Kong this is exactly what happened to me. At the end of my time there I was elbowing people out of my way getting onto the tube, degening with the best of them at Happy Valley, learning about Buddism, and eating grasshoppers on sticks for my tea. So by the time I left I was a bit more Chinese than when I arrived. That is the process of integration.

Sure, we both could have been law abiding and retained our complete Britishness. We could have demanded fish and chips for dinner and refused to try and learn the language. We could have wore bowler hats when we walked down the street. Do you think this would have made our experiences better and more fulfilling? Was the process of integration and acceptance easier because we tried? The term 'When in Rome' has a lot of validity when considering the subject of integration don't you think?

Not sure I've seen many Brits wearing bowler hats, and I'd say a curry is the most British food. That's been integrated into many people's way of life in Britain. But we don't force people to eat curries in order for them to live here.

[Rod Paradise]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?
...

I think learning the language of the country you're living in is the only element of integration that I think really gets in the way of good relations between immigrants and the wider community. If this was universal it would solve a lot of the problems which aren't actually caused by racism.

 

Lots of British ex-pats go and live in other countries (e.g. Spain or Dubai) without attempting to learn the native language, and they can function there perfectly well without a clamour for them to 'integrate'.Or am I wrong? I agree that learning the native language makes a lot of sense to make life easier for the immigrant, but it's not universally essential.

I was going to say Brits are some of the worst for not integrating. Unfortunately in a lot of cases (and I'm not saying this about anyone posting here, it's been a good discussion) integration is what people say when they mean assimilation.

I know some Moroccan immigrants, they have integrated well in Glasgow, go to football, part of the pub crowd etc, one's wife is considered more foreign than him because she's a scouser . They still take shit sometimes because they have accents, or dare speak any of the 3 or 4 other languages they know ( not in our pub though), they still get stopped more by the cops than the rest of us (and our lot's a shady looking and in same cases behaving crowd). By being different, in some eyes they've not integrated.

[kinboshi]

Sure, I agree. But I asked if that was your approach in Japan and whether your experience was more or less fulfilling because of it. And whether you found acceptance easier to come by because of it.

Ah, but the integration seems to be a requirement/expectation of those who aren't the immigrants, not by the immigrants themselves?

[kinboshi]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what is meant by 'integration'?
...

I think learning the language of the country you're living in is the only element of integration that I think really gets in the way of good relations between immigrants and the wider community. If this was universal it would solve a lot of the problems which aren't actually caused by racism.

 

Lots of British ex-pats go and live in other countries (e.g. Spain or Dubai) without attempting to learn the native language, and they can function there perfectly well without a clamour for them to 'integrate'.Or am I wrong? I agree that learning the native language makes a lot of sense to make life easier for the immigrant, but it's not universally essential.

I was going to say Brits are some of the worst for not integrating. Unfortunately in a lot of cases (and I'm not saying this about anyone posting here, it's been a good discussion) integration is what people say when they mean assimilation.

I know some Moroccan immigrants, they have integrated well in Glasgow, go to football, part of the pub crowd etc, one's wife is considered more foreign than him because she's a scouser . They still take shit sometimes because they have accents, or dare speak any of the 3 or 4 other languages they know ( not in our pub though), they still get stopped more by the cops than the rest of us (and our lot's a shady looking and in same cases behaving crowd). By being different, in some eyes they've not integrated.

This is my point.

If I move to Glasgow, do I have to start watching pub football, eat deep-fried mars bars, hate the English and wear a tartan skirt (I'm joking of course)? Or can I pretty much do what I want, and live like a hermit outside of work, and not try to 'integrate' with the strange natives and their funny customs? 

[MANTIS01]

Kinboshi, so you do actually know what integration means and it is a strategy that you yourself employed when moving to a different country. There is no law which says that you must do it but isn't it fair to say that if you don't try you face greater challenges and more resistance? And actually your time spent in that country would have been less fulfilling?

[kinboshi]

Kinboshi, so you do actually know what integration means and it is a strategy that you yourself employed when moving to a different country. There is no law which says that you must do it but isn't it fair to say that if you don't try you face greater challenges and more resistance? And actually your time spent in that country would have been less fulfilling?

Up to the individual. That's my point.  There's a clamour for immigrants to 'integrate', but it's not really anyone's business but the individual immigrant if they want to 'integrate' or not.

There are plenty of people born in the UK who don't bother 'integrating' with the rest of the community they live in.

[Eck]

Pretty sure Kin knows what integration means but what you are describing is conforming not integrating. Your argument is to have an integrated society those who are slightly different to the masses should conform to the norm. Whilst I am sure it would be a lot more peaceful if we were to follow that ideal it would also be incredibly dull.