£1/3 deep @ the vic

[SuuPRlim]

we're not thinking of folding surely we're not thinking of folding?

I wanna shove but problem is we rep ZERO bluffs so it's tough to think what can realistically pay us off, however he can be bluffing and we beat some value bets so folding would be criminally bad.

I think you'd have to be sat there and know how people are seeing you and need a specific read on the dynamic to really know what the best river play is.

[wazz]

Never folding when he has worse two pair in his value range. We're pretty to be turning any hands into bluffs and if villain is tight he's neither got enough worse two pair in his range and might even fold some of it to a river raise, and he can ofc easily have all the sets in his range, so an easy call.

I can find reasons to 3b pre but mostly just flat, prefer flatting if we're suited.

Turn raise would be pretty awful, surely only serves to fold out all better and get all worse to call. If he has a draw he has a draw, there's only one card to come. The board being dry means a raise reps strength and we'd be bang in the middle of that range, or in other words, our hand is face-up. Flatting gives him the chance to barrel us off the hand.

[mulhuzz]

I can't find a reason not to raise river given

Unknown (young guy, very articulate)

obv it's thin, but we are sooo underrepped (even though we can never be really be bluffing)

think raising turn would be setting money on fire. what's the plan? raise/fold?

flatting pre is fine/standard I think in first orbit (although some better players than me will tell you 3ball him to tell him you're not to be fucked with -- session dynamics, etc, which I think is fine as well, but once you flat pre, only possible line is to keep calling bets and then decide river based on live read imo (never folding, but maybe raising, think I am).

[pleno1]

Perfect, sigh call river shoving as a bluff could be sexy.

[Doobs]

Perfect, sigh call river shoving as a bluff could be sexy.

Surely it can't be a bluff if nobody ever folds anything that beats us?  Not even convinced we can get anyone to fold the same hand as us. 

[Pinchop73]

I'd like to pose a theoretical question.

If villain checks to us on the river, how much would you bet?

The more pertinent question, are you b/c'ing, or b/f'ing?

[pleno1]

Perfect, sigh call river shoving as a bluff could be sexy.

Surely it can't be a bluff if nobody ever folds anything that beats us?  Not even convinced we can get anyone to fold the same hand as us. 

if they fold the same hand then its a bluff which could potentially happen as we dont have many bluffs that get to the river

[GaryM]

Bet sizing otf into 3 people oop looks like he’s hit a decent piece but wants to be heads up. Wouldn’t he do this with a TP decent  kicker but bet smaller with say a flopped set?

Barrelling the turn could fit with this story once he’s heads up but wouldn’t we expect a check with this hand on the riv as corkey says?

If I had more behind I’d r/f the riv but in this situation I’m calling half expecting to chop.

[wazz]

Bet sizing otf into 3 people oop looks like he’s hit a decent piece but wants to be heads up. Wouldn’t he do this with a TP decent  kicker but bet smaller with say a flopped set?

Barrelling the turn could fit with this story once he’s heads up but wouldn’t we expect a check with this hand on the riv as corkey says?

If I had more behind I’d r/f the riv but in this situation I’m calling half expecting to chop.

I feel like people try too hard to read into bet-sizing in this sort of spot and let it define their play on later streets; even if we had a solid read, villain could be intentionally mixing up his sizing, or doing it randomly, or doing it for the wrong reason, or just had a brainfart and made a mistake. Poker is a language - we're forced to say stuff and we have the job of interpreting what he says and doing something as a response to that, but unless we're very successfully in his head, we can't interpret something as nuanced as bet-sizing, at least not in this spot.

[CHIPPYMAN]

Do u think this is a good question ? U had AK on a AK269 rainbow and u asking what to do on the river ?
Jam river or fold pre !! If he got it , good luck to him .. Gg

[wazz]

Do u think this is a good question ? U had AK on a AK269 rainbow and u asking what to do on the river ?
Jam river or fold pre !! If he got it , good luck to him .. Gg

Yeah ok, fold preflop because we're not comfortable jamming the river (for value or as a bluff? who knows!) in this specific spot.

[GaryM]

Bet sizing otf into 3 people oop looks like he’s hit a decent piece but wants to be heads up. Wouldn’t he do this with a TP decent  kicker but bet smaller with say a flopped set?

Barrelling the turn could fit with this story once he’s heads up but wouldn’t we expect a check with this hand on the riv as corkey says?

If I had more behind I’d r/f the riv but in this situation I’m calling half expecting to chop.

I feel like people try too hard to read into bet-sizing in this sort of spot and let it define their play on later streets; even if we had a solid read, villain could be intentionally mixing up his sizing, or doing it randomly, or doing it for the wrong reason, or just had a brainfart and made a mistake. Poker is a language - we're forced to say stuff and we have the job of interpreting what he says and doing something as a response to that, but unless we're very successfully in his head, we can't interpret something as nuanced as bet-sizing, at least not in this spot.

I agree its not a science and its the inconsistencies in a vacuum that lead to my action on the riv.

[pleno1]

Do u think this is a good question ? U had AK on a AK269 rainbow and u asking what to do on the river ?
Jam river or fold pre !! If he got it , good luck to him .. Gg

well this isnt great logic, we shouldnt change 1 street action because we have an unclear decision later, and we shouldnt change our action later because we didnt do something before.

[stato_1]

THink this is perfect given we call river. Think this is a sort of board that a decent player will bomb quite a lot since he reps all the set/2pr combos and we cant have that many of them at all. No idea why we would raise the turn, seems horrendous given your line so far.

[Pinchop73]

I'd like to pose a theoretical question.

If villain checks to us on the river, how much would you bet?

The more pertinent question, are you b/c'ing, or b/f'ing?

I asked this because I had to consider this situation before calling the turn card.

I decided that I would be bet calling if he had check jammed, considering the situation and stack sizes. There's one KK combo, one AA combo, and three 22 combos. There's 4 combos we chop with, and a multitude of weaker value combos and a certain low % of bluff combos.

It's a pretty easy decision, right? Would you say my thought process is correct?

It obv didn't matter in the end as I was presented with a pretty easy decision to call. Would appreciate some feedback on the above though. Ta