What is 'trolling'

[doubleup]

Pretty sure the modern day "trolling" we all see, read and encounter started in the mid 90's on the early forums/chat sites and online gaming. Sites like WBS.net was pretty much the biggest chat site at the time and within a few months of it kicking off it was apparent there was a need for some mods, to keep things running smoothly. As first I could not understand why people would go on there with the sole intention to stir shit etc...Over the 3-4 years I chatted on it '95 onwards the problem become more and more an issue, lurkers, spoof profiles, general people being arses.

Around the mid nighties I was playing Ultima Online and Subspace, both of which took the trolls to a new level, people would simply login to those games and just chat shit 24/7 looking for people who were weak or not with it and rip the shit out of them. Over EQ, WoW and right upto now online games have a much tighter set of rules and its hard to really troll people on them without getting bans. It kinda meant that first class trolls moved to forums/chat sites as it was easier to get around mods.

I remember being called a "troll" at the time of the first Iraq invasion, the Everquest server I played on was a USA server and had a huge forum that had 50,000 active users, I swear to God I took so much shit for saying America was wrong to invade Iraq I was called all sorts, as long as you voice different opinions in sensible ways I don't see that as being a troll. (I was proved right anyway, even though i was called communist, socialist freak etc at the time ).

Forums these days are full of people who just do not know how to debate without venturing into being confrontational or unpleasantness.  Deliberately planting bombs that know to set off a sparked debate. Obv. we have low level trolling displayed by some banned peeps on here and one or two of the current posters, but it can go right up to the subtle and not so subtle nature of one or two who have a way with words so it can get through the mods. Trolls that are constantly pushing the rules and popular are always most difficult to control, always asking why? why you do this and that? sure can be draining for everyone and this forum went through years of it, until most of them grew up and realized what utter jerks they were/or perm banned.

Today I kinda fear for my young girls growing up with so much crap online.

tl:dr

[kinboshi]

Pretty sure the modern day "trolling" we all see, read and encounter started in the mid 90's on the early forums/chat sites and online gaming. Sites like WBS.net was pretty much the biggest chat site at the time and within a few months of it kicking off it was apparent there was a need for some mods, to keep things running smoothly. As first I could not understand why people would go on there with the sole intention to stir shit etc...Over the 3-4 years I chatted on it '95 onwards the problem become more and more an issue, lurkers, spoof profiles, general people being arses.

Around the mid nighties I was playing Ultima Online and Subspace, both of which took the trolls to a new level, people would simply login to those games and just chat shit 24/7 looking for people who were weak or not with it and rip the shit out of them. Over EQ, WoW and right upto now online games have a much tighter set of rules and its hard to really troll people on them without getting bans. It kinda meant that first class trolls moved to forums/chat sites as it was easier to get around mods.

I remember being called a "troll" at the time of the first Iraq invasion, the Everquest server I played on was a USA server and had a huge forum that had 50,000 active users, I swear to God I took so much shit for saying America was wrong to invade Iraq I was called all sorts, as long as you voice different opinions in sensible ways I don't see that as being a troll. (I was proved right anyway, even though i was called communist, socialist freak etc at the time ).

Forums these days are full of people who just do not know how to debate without venturing into being confrontational or unpleasantness.  Deliberately planting bombs that know to set off a sparked debate. Obv. we have low level trolling displayed by some banned peeps on here and one or two of the current posters, but it can go right up to the subtle and not so subtle nature of one or two who have a way with words so it can get through the mods. Trolls that are constantly pushing the rules and popular are always most difficult to control, always asking why? why you do this and that? sure can be draining for everyone and this forum went through years of it, until most of them grew up and realized what utter jerks they were/or perm banned.

Today I kinda fear for my young girls growing up with so much crap online.

Maybe because of the the amount of information easily accessible on the internet plus our nurtured believes, we are less tolerant to other peoples opinions, that's why the word "Troll or Trolling" is used more loosely then it should be.  Adding that we have less face to face contact, so less empathy is shown in our posts.

My biggest fear for my kids growing up is that they'll have less face to face contact with their pears, but I'm pretty happy in the fact that they'll grow up in a world that access to information will be at their fingertips...

The art of debating is absent for many. This means that arguments are put forward in a way that doesn't debate a particular opinion, but instead focus on ad hominen attacks or mindless posts that amount to sticking fingers in their ears whilst repeatedly shouting.

For example, someone makes a point that defends a particular group, such as women, gays, immigrants, etc., and there's immediately a post calling them a 'bleeding heart liberal' or a mention  of 'it's political correctness gone mad'.  No actual arguments, evidence or interesting thoughts - just jibes and clichéd soundbites.

The same lazy posts that can be seen by those that accuse the forum of being a clique (or usually a click). Do these people want a debate, or are they merely low-level trolls?

[Tal]

The word is overused IMO and it takes away from the actual point of all of this:

If you say something that causes someone else offence, whatever you think of them for taking offence, there should be some tingle in your brain that encourages you to think about what you did and whether you should:

a) address that with the person directly
b) reflect on how you put views across in the future or
c) apologise for any offence caused.

What name that gives someone who causes offence is much less important.

If you set out to cause offence or you acted knowing that it was reasonably likely you'd cause offence but carried on anyway, you can call it trolling, abuse, you can call it Mavis Butterworth if you like; the point is, it isn't nice to be that person.

I disagree with stuff all the time. I'm widely regarded amongst friends and family for being a good 7.8 on the Grumpy Scale at the best of times. Occasionally, I overstep the mark, such as one the other week. Wasn't what I set out to achieve, but I know I caused offence and I apologised.

Communication is all about the recipient; the audience. That is often forgotten. If the person you're talking to doesn't understand, can't read or is offended by what you write, that means the message you were getting across didn't work.

If that was the message you were getting across, well you probably would have been better off not saying it; nice people don't do stuff like that too often.

It isn't forum etiquette or keeping on the right side of the Mods; just being as nice a chap as I can care to be.

[BangBang]

Pretty sure the modern day "trolling" we all see, read and encounter started in the mid 90's on the early forums/chat sites and online gaming. Sites like WBS.net was pretty much the biggest chat site at the time and within a few months of it kicking off it was apparent there was a need for some mods, to keep things running smoothly. As first I could not understand why people would go on there with the sole intention to stir shit etc...Over the 3-4 years I chatted on it '95 onwards the problem become more and more an issue, lurkers, spoof profiles, general people being arses.

Around the mid nighties I was playing Ultima Online and Subspace, both of which took the trolls to a new level, people would simply login to those games and just chat shit 24/7 looking for people who were weak or not with it and rip the shit out of them. Over EQ, WoW and right upto now online games have a much tighter set of rules and its hard to really troll people on them without getting bans. It kinda meant that first class trolls moved to forums/chat sites as it was easier to get around mods.

I remember being called a "troll" at the time of the first Iraq invasion, the Everquest server I played on was a USA server and had a huge forum that had 50,000 active users, I swear to God I took so much shit for saying America was wrong to invade Iraq I was called all sorts, as long as you voice different opinions in sensible ways I don't see that as being a troll. (I was proved right anyway, even though i was called communist, socialist freak etc at the time ).

Forums these days are full of people who just do not know how to debate without venturing into being confrontational or unpleasantness.  Deliberately planting bombs that know to set off a sparked debate. Obv. we have low level trolling displayed by some banned peeps on here and one or two of the current posters, but it can go right up to the subtle and not so subtle nature of one or two who have a way with words so it can get through the mods. Trolls that are constantly pushing the rules and popular are always most difficult to control, always asking why? why you do this and that? sure can be draining for everyone and this forum went through years of it, until most of them grew up and realized what utter jerks they were/or perm banned.

Today I kinda fear for my young girls growing up with so much crap online.

Maybe because of the the amount of information easily accessible on the internet plus our nurtured believes, we are less tolerant to other peoples opinions, that's why the word "Troll or Trolling" is used more loosely then it should be.  Adding that we have less face to face contact, so less empathy is shown in our posts.

My biggest fear for my kids growing up is that they'll have less face to face contact with their pears, but I'm pretty happy in the fact that they'll grow up in a world that access to information will be at their fingertips...

The art of debating is absent for many. This means that arguments are put forward in a way that doesn't debate a particular opinion, but instead focus on ad hominen attacks or mindless posts that amount to sticking fingers in their ears whilst repeatedly shouting.

For example, someone makes a point that defends a particular group, such as women, gays, immigrants, etc., and there's immediately a post calling them a 'bleeding heart liberal' or a mention  of 'it's political correctness gone mad'.  No actual arguments, evidence or interesting thoughts - just jibes and clichéd soundbites.

The same lazy posts that can be seen by those that accuse the forum of being a clique (or usually a click). Do these people want a debate, or are they merely low-level trolls?

I agree, the art of debating is absent in many, but understanding when we’re debating opinions, it is just that, opinions, sometimes void of facts and only to persuade the other readers that our opinions are valid sometimes takes some doing.    

Think what you’re talking about; is what we sometimes get in the diaries, where the diarist will express his opinion and other someone will come on and poo poo in a mindless way.  I agree this is just like covering your ears and shouting, or my favorite, repeating the same thing "only louder".

But sometimes you get valid well written opinions that again are just poo poo’d by the majority because it doesn’t fit into there believe.   The great thing about this forum is the topic, Poker attracts such a wide range of people, not just one subclass like  a political forum would, so opinions should always be debated…

Those to weak to stand up and formulate an intelligent or any kind of argument make lazy posts.  And no I don’t believe they’re trolls I just think they’re very weak minded individuals that would rather slander then get into a debate.

And what are we going to do about those Clicks …

[Claw75]

The way I understood it is that trolls usually set out with the sole intention of provoking people on message boards etc, usually anonymously, and that this wouldn't be something someone otherwise active within a community would engage in - that rather coming under the 'flaming' banner.

Whilst we're on the subject, how do people pronounce the word 'trolling'? Was surprised in a discussion with a couple of eminent internet users that they say it differently to me (i.e. They are wrong)

[AndrewT]

.

[Acidmouse]

Pretty sure the modern day "trolling" we all see, read and encounter started in the mid 90's on the early forums/chat sites and online gaming. Sites like WBS.net was pretty much the biggest chat site at the time and within a few months of it kicking off it was apparent there was a need for some mods, to keep things running smoothly. As first I could not understand why people would go on there with the sole intention to stir shit etc...Over the 3-4 years I chatted on it '95 onwards the problem become more and more an issue, lurkers, spoof profiles, general people being arses.

Around the mid nighties I was playing Ultima Online and Subspace, both of which took the trolls to a new level, people would simply login to those games and just chat shit 24/7 looking for people who were weak or not with it and rip the shit out of them. Over EQ, WoW and right upto now online games have a much tighter set of rules and its hard to really troll people on them without getting bans. It kinda meant that first class trolls moved to forums/chat sites as it was easier to get around mods.

I remember being called a "troll" at the time of the first Iraq invasion, the Everquest server I played on was a USA server and had a huge forum that had 50,000 active users, I swear to God I took so much shit for saying America was wrong to invade Iraq I was called all sorts, as long as you voice different opinions in sensible ways I don't see that as being a troll. (I was proved right anyway, even though i was called communist, socialist freak etc at the time ).

Forums these days are full of people who just do not know how to debate without venturing into being confrontational or unpleasantness.  Deliberately planting bombs that know to set off a sparked debate. Obv. we have low level trolling displayed by some banned peeps on here and one or two of the current posters, but it can go right up to the subtle and not so subtle nature of one or two who have a way with words so it can get through the mods. Trolls that are constantly pushing the rules and popular are always most difficult to control, always asking why? why you do this and that? sure can be draining for everyone and this forum went through years of it, until most of them grew up and realized what utter jerks they were/or perm banned.

Today I kinda fear for my young girls growing up with so much crap online.

Maybe because of the the amount of information easily accessible on the internet plus our nurtured believes, we are less tolerant to other peoples opinions, that's why the word "Troll or Trolling" is used more loosely then it should be.  Adding that we have less face to face contact, so less empathy is shown in our posts.

My biggest fear for my kids growing up is that they'll have less face to face contact with their pears, but I'm pretty happy in the fact that they'll grow up in a world that access to information will be at their fingertips...

The art of debating is absent for many. This means that arguments are put forward in a way that doesn't debate a particular opinion, but instead focus on ad hominen attacks or mindless posts that amount to sticking fingers in their ears whilst repeatedly shouting.

For example, someone makes a point that defends a particular group, such as women, gays, immigrants, etc., and there's immediately a post calling them a 'bleeding heart liberal' or a mention  of 'it's political correctness gone mad'.  No actual arguments, evidence or interesting thoughts - just jibes and clichéd soundbites.

The same lazy posts that can be seen by those that accuse the forum of being a clique (or usually a click). Do these people want a debate, or are they merely low-level trolls?

it is really annoying to name call/label someone in a debate because they don't have similar opinions. Fox news are kings of it, how on earth they can ever have a balanced debate when the main presenters belittle and label people as an introduction. O'reilly *cough*
high level troll alert.

[CHIPPYMAN]

Sigh, lol

can be hijacking a discussion, can be a lot worse than that (threats, abuse) as we have seen recently in the news

So few people these days are able to have a differenne of opinion in an adult fashion that these differences often descend into trolling online

LIKE WHAR JASON HERBERT DO!! Lol

[titaniumbean]

sigh it's like the word hacker.


just because the daily mail got in a huff and say trolls ruin childrens lives and are terrible people is just the same as comparing white/grey hackers to black hat hackers. tis idiotic.


true trolling is brilliant, hilarious and a joy to watch.



I'm hardly of an old generation but is it me or does no one remember playground bullying? back in the day you were taught to punch them back and stand up for yourself, now you have to fill in forms and go through councelling. tis all bullshit.

[david3103]

Pretty sure the modern day "trolling" we all see, read and encounter started in the mid 90's on the early forums/chat sites and online gaming. Sites like WBS.net was pretty much the biggest chat site at the time and within a few months of it kicking off it was apparent there was a need for some mods, to keep things running smoothly. As first I could not understand why people would go on there with the sole intention to stir shit etc...Over the 3-4 years I chatted on it '95 onwards the problem become more and more an issue, lurkers, spoof profiles, general people being arses.

Around the mid nighties I was playing Ultima Online and Subspace, both of which took the trolls to a new level, people would simply login to those games and just chat shit 24/7 looking for people who were weak or not with it and rip the shit out of them. Over EQ, WoW and right upto now online games have a much tighter set of rules and its hard to really troll people on them without getting bans. It kinda meant that first class trolls moved to forums/chat sites as it was easier to get around mods.

I remember being called a "troll" at the time of the first Iraq invasion, the Everquest server I played on was a USA server and had a huge forum that had 50,000 active users, I swear to God I took so much shit for saying America was wrong to invade Iraq I was called all sorts, as long as you voice different opinions in sensible ways I don't see that as being a troll. (I was proved right anyway, even though i was called communist, socialist freak etc at the time ).

Forums these days are full of people who just do not know how to debate without venturing into being confrontational or unpleasantness.  Deliberately planting bombs that know to set off a sparked debate. Obv. we have low level trolling displayed by some banned peeps on here and one or two of the current posters, but it can go right up to the subtle and not so subtle nature of one or two who have a way with words so it can get through the mods. Trolls that are constantly pushing the rules and popular are always most difficult to control, always asking why? why you do this and that? sure can be draining for everyone and this forum went through years of it, until most of them grew up and realized what utter jerks they were/or perm banned.

Today I kinda fear for my young girls growing up with so much crap online.

Maybe because of the the amount of information easily accessible on the internet plus our nurtured believes, we are less tolerant to other peoples opinions, that's why the word "Troll or Trolling" is used more loosely then it should be.  Adding that we have less face to face contact, so less empathy is shown in our posts.

My biggest fear for my kids growing up is that they'll have less face to face contact with their pears, but I'm pretty happy in the fact that they'll grow up in a world that access to information will be at their fingertips...

The art of debating is absent for many. This means that arguments are put forward in a way that doesn't debate a particular opinion, but instead focus on ad hominen attacks or mindless posts that amount to sticking fingers in their ears whilst repeatedly shouting.

For example, someone makes a point that defends a particular group, such as women, gays, immigrants, etc., and there's immediately a post calling them a 'bleeding heart liberal' or a mention  of 'it's political correctness gone mad'.  No actual arguments, evidence or interesting thoughts - just jibes and clichéd soundbites.

The same lazy posts that can be seen by those that accuse the forum of being a clique (or usually a click). Do these people want a debate, or are they merely low-level trolls?

it is really annoying to name call/label someone in a debate because they don't have similar opinions. Fox news are kings of it, how on earth they can ever have a balanced debate when the main presenters belittle and label people as an introduction. O'reilly *cough*
high level troll alert.

Love her though. The way she is openly laughing at him and the way she uses her reasoned arguments to belittle him. He's just too up himself to realise, and I can't help thinking that were he not a Newscaster, he'd be a troll.

[titaniumbean]

It angers me that people like O'Reilley can be alive, and be described as edumacated etc

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

[Woodsey]

Pffttt, when debates get heated both sides more often than not are guilty, and that is the case with labelling, sarcasm, name calling etc which can quickly lead to an escalation.

As regards the 'art of debating', that is more down to individual communication styles that anything else. Some people like to debate the small detail and write lengthy posts which appears as unnecessary nitpicking and waffle to their opposite style, people on the opposite end of the spectrum want to write short to the point posts which come across as blunt and can be perceived as rude by their opposites. Also on one end of the spectrum you have people that are quite sensitive, and on the other end people that have skin as think as a Rhino that aren't bothered by anything that is said to them. Throw strong difference of opinion into that then boom!

We do a lot of this sort of communication style stuff at work (insights colours training), not surprisingly I fall into the red section of the 4 categories which is the group that is most likely to be perceived as rude, arrogant and doesn't care what people think of them lol, no surprises there I guess  

http://www.inside-inspiration.com.au/insights-discovery/insights-colour-energies.html#.Ugps8qwUt4M

[titaniumbean]

Pffttt, when debates get heated both sides more often than not are guilty, and that is the case with labelling, sarcasm, name calling etc which can quickly lead to an escalation.

As regards the 'art of debating', that is more down to individual communication styles that anything else. Some people like to debate the small detail and write lengthy posts which appears as unnecessary nitpicking and waffle to their opposite style, people on the opposite end of the spectrum want to write short to the point posts which come across as blunt and can be perceived as rude by their opposites. Throw strong difference of opinion into that then boom!

We do a lot of this short of stuff at work (insights colours training), not surprisingly I fall into the red section of the 4 categories which is the group that most likely to be perceived as rude and arrogant lol, no surprises there I guess  

http://www.inside-inspiration.com.au/insights-discovery/insights-colour-energies.html#.Ugps8qwUt4M

shaddap you twat :p

[outragous76]

Aaron is currently sat somewhere laughing his rocks off

wpwp

[Woodsey]

Pffttt, when debates get heated both sides more often than not are guilty, and that is the case with labelling, sarcasm, name calling etc which can quickly lead to an escalation.

As regards the 'art of debating', that is more down to individual communication styles that anything else. Some people like to debate the small detail and write lengthy posts which appears as unnecessary nitpicking and waffle to their opposite style, people on the opposite end of the spectrum want to write short to the point posts which come across as blunt and can be perceived as rude by their opposites. Throw strong difference of opinion into that then boom!

We do a lot of this short of stuff at work (insights colours training), not surprisingly I fall into the red section of the 4 categories which is the group that most likely to be perceived as rude and arrogant lol, no surprises there I guess  

http://www.inside-inspiration.com.au/insights-discovery/insights-colour-energies.html#.Ugps8qwUt4M

shaddap you twat :p

That's the spirit lol