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Author Topic: 7 Card Stud thread  (Read 5249 times)
Honeybadger
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2015, 06:25:09 PM »

Would love to hear Honeybadger's views on Superstud

What you wanna know? Smiley
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redsimon
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2015, 06:52:24 PM »

Would love to hear Honeybadger's views on Superstud

What you wanna know? Smiley

The common mistakes even "good" players make in 7 card?

Trap hands and scenarios.

Just picking your brains tbh Smiley Appreciate if you want to keep your cards close to your chest!
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 07:31:06 PM »

How good is a23 with both 2 spades ace and not.
is a26 trash? Let's say in a 6 handed game First to act. Then the button.
how big is a meh trips hand? 999 let's say
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Honeybadger
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2015, 08:44:09 PM »

How good is a23 with both 2 spades ace and not.

A23 (with or without a two flush) is a massively over-valued hand. Don't get me wrong, it is a good hand and it is almost always playable. And it plays fairly well in both HU and multiway pots. But it is by no means a great hand. It cannot catch a single card on 4th street that can make it want to go to war/bet the farm. It's high potential is really two gutshots, after all. It requires both a 4 AND a 5 to produce a hand that wants to play a big pot.


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is a26 trash? Let's say in a 6 handed game First to act. Then the button.

Yes it is total trash. Can be used to steal the blinds from the BTN, and (perhaps) as an overlimp in LP vs a very weak and passive field. When playing this sort of crappy hand most of the profit comes from stealing the pot on 4th or 5th when you catch a scary board and your opponents catch bad. Or from reading hands well and manipulating opponents into making bad decisions (usually in small/medium pots) e.g. when you make some semi-decent two way hand and get them to pay off when you scoop... or from when you can get them to fold a hand that wins one side of the pot, and thus you manage to scoop a small pot. When UTG A26 is a very clear fold. Some people will routinely play this sort of hand (and worse) from all positions though, which is one reason why the DC games are so good.

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how big is a meh trips hand? 999 let's say

Big trips is usually considered to be a premium hand, but really it is not. When short stacked big trips truly is a premium hand. But the deeper the money gets the more of a trap hand it becomes. There are two reasons for this.

1) When you play a hand like (99)9... well, everyone knows what you have. It is tough to make money when your opponents know your cards! Of course, some people play hands like KK(9) or (TcJc)9c. In this case when they turn over a 9 their opponents cannot be completely certain that they have 999. But the problem with this is that playing (KK)9 or (JT)9 type hands is a huge money losing play.

2) The second reason why big trips is a trouble hand (when deep) is a structural one. Every other premium hand (stuff like 3s4s5s etc) GAINS equity down the streets. However, big trips LOSES equity down the streets. On 3rd street it has dominating equity against any hand (except bigger trips ldo), by 4th it is often only 50/50 or sometimes even a small dog, and by 5th street it can sometimes be drawing to maybe get half the pot. And that's not to mention 6th and 7th streets. That's why I do not consider a hand like JJJ a true premium hand unless the money is short - because its equity is not robust at all, it vanishes quickly down the streets. And often it is not even possible to realise this equity - e.g. when an opponent has clearly made a low and is now on a freeroll and the player with JJJ has to either fold, thus failing to realise his equity, or allow himself to be completely freerolled for a large sum of money.

Small trips are, of course, extremely good hands. Partly because of the fact that they block opponents making a small straight. But mainly because of the deception they contain - when you turn over a 5 your opponents cannot automatically know you have trips. 888 and 777 are unique hands and fall into their own category, and there is a special play that you can make which is to do with these 'mid-trip' hands. But I am going to keep that one secret because I think I am the only person that has worked it out... ;)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 08:54:50 PM by Honeybadger » Logged
rfgqqabc
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »

Good to see my musings about super stud weren't completely off. How would you rate 567 and 678. I presume 456 is much better than both of these and 567 > 678 but just how large is the difference? All these games are such cons. Nittiness is so highly rewarded but people think its a gambling game.
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Honeybadger
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2015, 09:02:39 PM »

Good to see my musings about super stud weren't completely off. How would you rate 567 and 678. I presume 456 is much better than both of these and 567 > 678 but just how large is the difference? All these games are such cons. Nittiness is so highly rewarded but people think its a gambling game.

I am not going to comment publicly on playing 876/765 type hands, because I know something about these hands that (as far as I know) no-one else does. I can talk to you about it privately though if you want?

I do not agree that Superstud is a con. I do believe that 5 or 6 card High Low Omaha is a con - for the exact reason you mentioned. But Superstud is actually a very deep game, with a lot of nuances. And it requires a highly developed skillset to play well (and moreover one which is very, very different to the skillset required to play community card games such as NLHE and PLO). It is not like 6 card PLO8 where basically the only winning strategy is to play very tight ABC poker and let the mugs who think it is a 'gambling game' GIVE you their money.
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KarmaDope
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2015, 09:57:12 PM »

Used to play a lot of mixed games, in fact my biggest cash win in terms of BB was a 2-8 spread limit Razz game in Vegas in 2011.

Havent played for 18 months or so but am currently relearning Stud by video/book before sticking £200 on Stars at the end of the month to play .5/1 on there.
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Ransom
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2015, 09:32:24 AM »

Used to play a lot of mixed games, in fact my biggest cash win in terms of BB was a 2-8 spread limit Razz game in Vegas in 2011.

Havent played for 18 months or so but am currently relearning Stud by video/book before sticking £200 on Stars at the end of the month to play .5/1 on there.

Regular stud moving up past the .50/1 limit becomes a either a massive reg fest, or tables full of the Chinese collusion teams. Stud/8 has a little more action in it, but again once you get up to $2/$4 and $3/$6+, it's the same people day in, day out and there's no real soft spots like you can find at Holdem.

Razz seems to have a larger degree of fun player up to $10/$20 limit, worth looking into if you plan on playing stud games online. It can be quite rewarding once you get into the swing of it, and know which players are making amazing mistakes on a regular basis. 

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bergeroo
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2015, 09:40:31 AM »

At which casino did you play 2-8 Spread Limit razz? Sounds like my kind of game!

Used to play a lot of mixed games, in fact my biggest cash win in terms of BB was a 2-8 spread limit Razz game in Vegas in 2011.

Havent played for 18 months or so but am currently relearning Stud by video/book before sticking £200 on Stars at the end of the month to play .5/1 on there.
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KarmaDope
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« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2015, 08:40:34 AM »

At which casino did you play 2-8 Spread Limit razz? Sounds like my kind of game!

Used to play a lot of mixed games, in fact my biggest cash win in terms of BB was a 2-8 spread limit Razz game in Vegas in 2011.

Havent played for 18 months or so but am currently relearning Stud by video/book before sticking £200 on Stars at the end of the month to play .5/1 on there.

Sadly, it was the now defunct Tropicana Sad

Used to play a lot of mixed games, in fact my biggest cash win in terms of BB was a 2-8 spread limit Razz game in Vegas in 2011.

Havent played for 18 months or so but am currently relearning Stud by video/book before sticking £200 on Stars at the end of the month to play .5/1 on there.

Regular stud moving up past the .50/1 limit becomes a either a massive reg fest, or tables full of the Chinese collusion teams. Stud/8 has a little more action in it, but again once you get up to $2/$4 and $3/$6+, it's the same people day in, day out and there's no real soft spots like you can find at Holdem.

Razz seems to have a larger degree of fun player up to $10/$20 limit, worth looking into if you plan on playing stud games online. It can be quite rewarding once you get into the swing of it, and know which players are making amazing mistakes on a regular basis. 



Yeah I know - the plan will be to play all 3 (Stud8 is my weakest hence my focus is on that and regular Stud) with maybe the odd 8-game thrown in to keep tables running.
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