A Taxing debate

[AlunB]

Really disagree with this logic honeybadger. All businesses (or self employed people) pay large amounts of money to other businesses who also pay corporation tax. The situation of the pro gambler is not unique in this respect at all. It's just more directly obvious.

As honeybadger rightly points out in certain limited circumstances (live gaming) there is an almost punitive tax rate but that doesn't stop the companies wanting to open more casinos. That is their business cost and relates to them not you. It has nothing to do with your personal liability. It's a logical fallacy to connect the two imo.

Should people working for freight companies not pay tax as their company already pays so much indirect tax when buying fuel? Should a cab driver?

Just for the record the tax on online gambling really isn't going to be that high and currently is absurdly low for most companies. And betfair really doesn't pay that much corporation tax. It only made £60m profit last year.

[Honeybadger]

Really disagree with this logic honeybadger. All businesses (or self employed people) pay large amounts of money to other businesses who also pay corporation tax. The situation of the pro gambler is not unique in this respect at all. It's just more directly obvious.

As honeybadger rightly points out in certain limited circumstances (live gaming) there is an almost punitive tax rate but that doesn't stop the companies wanting to open more casinos. That is their business cost and relates to them not you. It has nothing to do with your personal liability. It's a logical fallacy to connect the two imo.

Should people working for freight companies not pay tax as their company already pays so much indirect tax when buying fuel? Should a cab driver?

Just for the record the tax on online gambling really isn't going to be that high and currently is absurdly low for most companies. And betfair really doesn't pay that much corporation tax. It only made £60m profit last year.

Tbh, I am not 100% behind the argument anyway. However, I believe there is some validity in it - mainly when applied to the very unfair punitive tax laws that apply in, for example, live poker at a casino or DTD.

[Honeybadger]

Also, I think I should start voluntarily paying my National Insurance every year. Seems the right thing to do IMO. Anyone know how I go about paying it?

[AlunB]

Really disagree with this logic honeybadger. All businesses (or self employed people) pay large amounts of money to other businesses who also pay corporation tax. The situation of the pro gambler is not unique in this respect at all. It's just more directly obvious.

As honeybadger rightly points out in certain limited circumstances (live gaming) there is an almost punitive tax rate but that doesn't stop the companies wanting to open more casinos. That is their business cost and relates to them not you. It has nothing to do with your personal liability. It's a logical fallacy to connect the two imo.

Should people working for freight companies not pay tax as their company already pays so much indirect tax when buying fuel? Should a cab driver?

Just for the record the tax on online gambling really isn't going to be that high and currently is absurdly low for most companies. And betfair really doesn't pay that much corporation tax. It only made £60m profit last year.

Tbh, I am not 100% behind the argument anyway. However, I believe there is some validity in it - mainly when applied to the very unfair punitive tax laws that apply in, for example, live poker at a casino or DTD.

Yes I suspect you are probably right in that there is a narrow set of circumstances where it has some merit. But not much

[The Camel]

Also, I think I should start voluntarily paying my National Insurance every year. Seems the right thing to do IMO. Anyone know how I go about paying it?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/volcontr/basics.htm

It's about £600 / year for me.

[vegaslover]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

[arbboy]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

[redsimon]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

isn't the benefit cap 25k per year? Where do you get 60k from?

[arbboy]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

isn't the benefit cap 25k per year? Where do you get 60k from?  

It has been £25k since 2010.  Before that anything goes.  Hence why the country is skint!  This is a grossed up figure as well just for clarity of what people would have to earn in a real job to 'take home' the benefits they do to pay for the services/rent they do.  Even at a cap of £25k a year the real cap is in excess of £35k in real gross wages earned in order for them to receive £25k net.

[AlunB]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

Except of course absolutely nobody is saying that.

And we are talking about income tax (and NI) as these are the taxes gamblers don't pay. Not a great deal of point discussing the taxes we all do pay.

If someone is earning £60k in benefits then of course they should pay tax on it. Although it would make a lot more sense to simply reduce the benefit amount at source.

Afaik the Tories brought in a benefit cap so nobody is earning that much anymore anyway. Prior to that the number of people claiming that amount was in the low hundreds anyway.

People didn't really answer your point before not because they were defending huge benefit claimants but because they felt it was an utterly irrelevant side issue. As do I.

[Doobs]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

isn't the benefit cap 25k per year? Where do you get 60k from?  

It has been £25k since 2010.  Before that anything goes.  Hence why the country is skint!  This is a grossed up figure as well just for clarity of what people would have to earn in a real job to 'take home' the benefits they do to pay for the services/rent they do.  Even at a cap of £25k a year the real cap is in excess of £35k in real gross wages earned in order for them to receive £25k net.

The country is skint because of the lack of a benefit cap prior to 2010?  Have you any idea how much that cost at all, or what proportion of state spending that was?  Rhetorical question obviously.

[arbboy]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

isn't the benefit cap 25k per year? Where do you get 60k from?  

It has been £25k since 2010.  Before that anything goes.  Hence why the country is skint!  This is a grossed up figure as well just for clarity of what people would have to earn in a real job to 'take home' the benefits they do to pay for the services/rent they do.  Even at a cap of £25k a year the real cap is in excess of £35k in real gross wages earned in order for them to receive £25k net.

The country is skint because of the lack of a benefit cap prior to 2010?  Have you any idea how much that cost at all, or what proportion of state spending that was?  Rhetorical question obviously.

It's not so much how much it costs, more the message it sends to people who don't want to live that life because it's wrong and how demotivated they become because of it.

[redarmi]

Obv nothing to do with income tax, but poker players stil paying for local services via their council tax payments

only income tax matters on this thread!  Other taxes don't count.  It's a lefties thread.  If you earn £60k a year on benefits though u get this paid for you (thanks to Blair and Brown's kindness for 13 years towards those who love the play the system for the max - you might even get to live in Mayfair or Westminster on the state as well even though no one in the real world can afford such luxuries) for free via other tax payers (professional gamblers do pay council tax alongside every other tax apart from income tax) and don't have to pay income tax on your income (benefits) before you pay it out of your net income.

isn't the benefit cap 25k per year? Where do you get 60k from?

The Daily Mail ldo

[The Camel]

Need the words "Political correctness gone mad" to complete the full house.

Where's Woodsey when you need him?

[Woodsey]

Need the words "Political correctness gone mad" to complete the full house.

Where's Woodsey when you need him?

Nah, PC tossers is better lol