A Taxing debate

[The Camel]

Shame on all the Euros moving to England in order to avoid their tax obligation in their native country.

[AlunB]

Shame on all the Euros moving to England in order to avoid their tax obligation in their native country.

Level?

[SuuPRlim]

Shame on all the Euros moving to England in order to avoid their tax obligation in their native country.

SHAME ON THEM.

People should pay their taxes.

[The Camel]

Shame on all the Euros moving to England in order to avoid their tax obligation in their native country.

Level?

Not at all.

They knew they had to pay tax if they won money when they entered the tournament.

To move to a country where they don't have to pay is pure tax dodging.

They are poker's version of Lewis Hamilton.

[bergeroo]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

[AlunB]

Shame on all the Euros moving to England in order to avoid their tax obligation in their native country.

Level?

Not at all.

They knew they had to pay tax if they won money when they entered the tournament.

To move to a country where they don't have to pay is pure tax dodging.

They are poker's version of Lewis Hamilton.

Fair enough. I do appreciate the difference, but still feels like you are putting yourself up to be shot at here.

[The Camel]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

I've argued about 1000 times before how ridiculous it is that pro gamblers aren't taxed in this country.

Almost as ridiculous as countries that do levy on gambling winnings that tax people who win on slots, blackjack or keno.

If these guys did indeed live in London before they made the FT of this tournament I withdraw some of the implicit criticism. Although still a bit effing cheeky to choose a career in gambling and then refuse to pay your fair share of tax in your country.

[arbboy]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

I've argued about 1000 times before how ridiculous it is that pro gamblers aren't taxed in this country.

Almost as ridiculous as countries that do levy on gambling winnings that tax people who win on slots, blackjack or keno.

If these guys did indeed live in London before they made the FT of this tournament I withdraw some of the implicit criticism. Although still a bit effing cheeky to choose a career in gambling and then refuse to pay your fair share of tax in your country.

Pro gamblers pay far more tax than the majority of people in this country just not any income tax.  Everytime you win a cash pot live you pay 50% of the rake charged goes straight to the government via the casino.  The same applies for all reg fees charged on live mtts.  Every time you have a bet/lay on betfair a proportion of your winnings goes to the treasury via bf's corporation tax bill.  Never mind all the vat pro gamblers pay on their lifestyle of champers/fast cars/petrol/air fares/hotels/restaurants amongst numerous other spends.  Sit down and work out how much total tax you pay a year like i did in all forms of taxation (excluding income tax which we obviously don't pay) and you will never let anyone tell you again you don't pay any tax.

The government is quite happy with how much it takes out of the gambling game already and knows it would cost more to police than it would ever raise.

[AlunB]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

I've argued about 1000 times before how ridiculous it is that pro gamblers aren't taxed in this country.

Almost as ridiculous as countries that do levy on gambling winnings that tax people who win on slots, blackjack or keno.

If these guys did indeed live in London before they made the FT of this tournament I withdraw some of the implicit criticism. Although still a bit effing cheeky to choose a career in gambling and then refuse to pay your fair share of tax in your country.

Pro gamblers pay far more tax than the majority of people in this country just not any income tax.  Everytime you win a cash pot live you pay 50% of the rake charged goes straight to the government via the casino.  The same applies for all reg fees charged on live mtts.  Every time you have a bet/lay on betfair a proportion of your winnings goes to the treasury via bf's corporation tax bill.  Never mind all the vat pro gamblers pay on their lifestyle of champers/fast cars/petrol/air fares/hotels/restaurants amongst numerous other spends.  Sit down and work out how much total tax you pay a year like i did in all forms of taxation (excluding income tax which we obviously don't pay) and you will never let anyone tell you again you don't pay any tax.

They are your suppliers/contractors/whatever. In the normal course of business, your suppliers also pay tax. And they don't pay it every time. They pay it based on their net revenue from gaming for a defined period.

[AlunB]

Norway's system as far as I can make out seems pretty sensible. No tax on recreational gambling winnings, but tax on gambling where it is an income.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/05/13/poker-earnings-hit-by-tax/

[arbboy]

Norway's system as far as I can make out seems pretty sensible. No tax on recreational gambling winnings, but tax on gambling where it is an income.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/05/13/poker-earnings-hit-by-tax/

Totally impossible to prove and where do you draw the line?  The city trader who won £200k on the yes/no vote wouldn't pay any tax because he has a job yer someone earning £25k a year grinding cash games would.

[AlunB]

Norway's system as far as I can make out seems pretty sensible. No tax on recreational gambling winnings, but tax on gambling where it is an income.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/05/13/poker-earnings-hit-by-tax/

Totally impossible to prove and where do you draw the line?  The city trader who won £200k on the yes/no vote wouldn't pay any tax because he has a job yer someone earning £25k a year grinding cash games would.

Well in the case of the link above the courts drew the line, just like they have to with all kinds of other complex tax issues. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

And yes I actually think that's fair. One is relying on it as income, one is using it as discretionary spending.

[The Camel]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

I've argued about 1000 times before how ridiculous it is that pro gamblers aren't taxed in this country.

Almost as ridiculous as countries that do levy on gambling winnings that tax people who win on slots, blackjack or keno.

If these guys did indeed live in London before they made the FT of this tournament I withdraw some of the implicit criticism. Although still a bit effing cheeky to choose a career in gambling and then refuse to pay your fair share of tax in your country.

Pro gamblers pay far more tax than the majority of people in this country just not any income tax.  Everytime you win a cash pot live you pay 50% of the rake charged goes straight to the government via the casino.  The same applies for all reg fees charged on live mtts.  Every time you have a bet/lay on betfair a proportion of your winnings goes to the treasury via bf's corporation tax bill.  Never mind all the vat pro gamblers pay on their lifestyle of champers/fast cars/petrol/air fares/hotels/restaurants amongst numerous other spends.  Sit down and work out how much total tax you pay a year like i did in all forms of taxation (excluding income tax which we obviously don't pay) and you will never let anyone tell you again you don't pay any tax.

I'm not having that argument.

The casinos/bookmakers/exchanges are paying those taxes not the player.

Rake, commission or over round wouldn't change if there wasn't gambling tax.

And the other bit is just laughable. That's like suggesting people who pay income tax shouldn't have to pay VAT, duty on fags, car tax etc etc.

[The Camel]

Norway's system as far as I can make out seems pretty sensible. No tax on recreational gambling winnings, but tax on gambling where it is an income.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/05/13/poker-earnings-hit-by-tax/

Totally impossible to prove and where do you draw the line?  The city trader who won £200k on the yes/no vote wouldn't pay any tax because he has a job yer someone earning £25k a year grinding cash games would.

Easy this.

If you can't prove that gambling isn't your main form of income you are taxed on winnings.

[Doobs]

I believe Martin Jacobson has lived in London for a number of years, though I don't know him or anything. Maybe the others have too? You would have imagined the Basque guy might have moved over a year or two ago after Spanish regulation.

Just because we as British people have drawn the lucky straw as to live in a country where gambling isn't recognised as a job and taxed, why shouldn't others be able to do this?

The Swedish tax laws used to be ridiculous.  You had to pay tax on any winnings but you couldn't offset any losses.  So you had a million in winnings and had paid £900,000 in losses, you paid more tax than you had in profit.  It has recently changed, but even now you can't offset fully.  But if he had moved here years ago and was settled and liked it here, why would he move back?