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Author Topic: Greenpeace protestor gets her ass handed to her  (Read 30548 times)
ScottMGee
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« Reply #75 on: December 20, 2009, 08:35:43 AM »


Quote
I think this is an awful example, I do not recall that there is any significant doubt level of belief in the scientific community or the public that chemotherapy homeopathy works.

You would think so wouldn't you, but apparantly The NHS spends approximately £4 million a year on homeopathy.

Four NHS homeopathic hospitals have been a part of the NHS since it began in 1948. They currently treat 55,000 patients per year who are referred  by  GPs, PCTs and NHS specialists.

http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/media_centre/facts_about_homeopathy/nhs_referrals.html
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thetank
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« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2009, 01:38:41 PM »

£4 million pounds is nothing compared to what the NHS waste money on.

They probably spend £4 million every day giving people with colds anti-biotics and treating the resultant SARS virus.
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« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2009, 07:36:19 PM »

It's another one that dealt with very well by Ben Goldacre in the Bad Science book - Homeopathy has absolutely no medical benefit from the ingredients, but can have a fairly major placebo effect. And the placebo effect is measurably real. So the NHS spending money on it isn't totally out of order IMHO. As long as they're not trying to cure cancer with it. But for stuff like depression (where no brain chemistry cause) it can work ok, if the patient believes in it.
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« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2009, 08:13:14 PM »

I read this article in New Scientist a while ago which seems to indicate that Homeopathy might not be entirely bollocks:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524911.600-13-things-that-do-not-make-sense.html?page=2
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« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2009, 08:56:08 PM »

I read this article in New Scientist a while ago which seems to indicate that Homeopathy might not be entirely bollocks:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524911.600-13-things-that-do-not-make-sense.html?page=2

This is the bit that sold me:

"And it remains true that no homeopathic remedy has ever been shown to work in a large randomised placebo-controlled clinical trial."
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G1BTW
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« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2009, 09:03:10 PM »

I read this article in New Scientist a while ago which seems to indicate that Homeopathy might not be entirely bollocks:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524911.600-13-things-that-do-not-make-sense.html?page=2

This is the bit that sold me:

"And it remains true that no homeopathic remedy has ever been shown to work in a large randomised placebo-controlled clinical trial."


You'd think some type of homeopathic remedy would work if

""""Once released, the histamine stops them releasing any more. The study, replicated in four different labs, found that homeopathic solutions - so dilute that they probably didn't contain a single histamine molecule - worked just like histamine.

""""
were true...
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thetank
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« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2009, 01:00:42 AM »

It's another one that dealt with very well by Ben Goldacre in the Bad Science book - Homeopathy has absolutely no medical benefit from the ingredients, but can have a fairly major placebo effect. And the placebo effect is measurably real. So the NHS spending money on it isn't totally out of order IMHO. As long as they're not trying to cure cancer with it.


Good post.
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Swordpoker
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« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2009, 02:43:53 PM »

I'm a big fan of placebo. The really cool thing is you can give someone a placebo without 'tricking' them. i.e. "Take this placebo and you'll get better". Give them placebo+ and they'll get better even faster.

Just use tap water and save 4 million quid.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2009, 04:17:36 PM »

I'm a big fan of placebo. The really cool thing is you can give someone a placebo without 'tricking' them. i.e. "Take this placebo and you'll get better". Give them placebo+ and they'll get better even faster.

Just use tap water and save 4 million quid.

Homoeopathy is just tap-water and sugar pills.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The amount of water needed to dilute a 'remedy' to 30c would be several million times larger than the planet on what we sit.  There is no science behind it, no scientific evidence, it's plain woo.

As we were on the subject of Ben Goldacre, he mentioned that it's interesting how placebos work in terms of two sugar pills often work better than one, four better than two, and an intravenous saline solution (with no 'active ingredients') tends to work even better.  He also  mentioned in his talk I went to see that not enough money has been spent on the placebo effect and that used correctly, it could actually save the NHS a lot of money.

The problem with homoeopathy is that people are using it instead of tried and tested 'medicines' for serious conditions.  People are peddling it as science and as an 'alternative' to medical treatments that have had to undergo clinical trials, peer-review, strict scrutiny and rule-following before they ever come close to humans.  Homoeopathy doesn't help with serious ailments, and when it is touted as a way of avoiding or treating malaria, AIDS, TB and other fatal illnesses then it's a dangerous thing.

I'll dig out an article that explains how homoeopathy is meant to work.  It's almost comical.

Talking of comedy, this is excellent:



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kinboshi
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« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2009, 04:20:22 PM »

Oh and as for Monckton, his 'science' is fundamentally flawed and his bias is ridiculous. 
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G1BTW
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« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2009, 08:05:35 PM »

I'm a big fan of placebo. The really cool thing is you can give someone a placebo without 'tricking' them. i.e. "Take this placebo and you'll get better". Give them placebo+ and they'll get better even faster.

Just use tap water and save 4 million quid.

Homoeopathy is just tap-water and sugar pills.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The amount of water needed to dilute a 'remedy' to 30c would be several million times larger than the planet on what we sit.  There is no science behind it, no scientific evidence, it's plain woo.

As we were on the subject of Ben Goldacre, he mentioned that it's interesting how placebos work in terms of two sugar pills often work better than one, four better than two, and an intravenous saline solution (with no 'active ingredients') tends to work even better.  He also  mentioned in his talk I went to see that not enough money has been spent on the placebo effect and that used correctly, it could actually save the NHS a lot of money.

The problem with homoeopathy is that people are using it instead of tried and tested 'medicines' for serious conditions.  People are peddling it as science and as an 'alternative' to medical treatments that have had to undergo clinical trials, peer-review, strict scrutiny and rule-following before they ever come close to humans.  Homoeopathy doesn't help with serious ailments, and when it is touted as a way of avoiding or treating malaria, AIDS, TB and other fatal illnesses then it's a dangerous thing.

I'll dig out an article that explains how homoeopathy is meant to work.  It's almost comical.

Talking of comedy, this is excellent:





I thought that some research had showed that even though homepathic 'water' should have no traces of the other original added chemical, it did not in the end act just as pure water did?
I'm amazed though that people can become better simply by listening to some Indie rock, does this work with any other bands?

I did hear once from some dude who is very big in the Health Psychology field that among those things found to affect the outcome of illnesses 'prayer, and retrospective prayer' were shown to have an effect.

Apart from that, the power of the mind over illness should not be underestimated, maybe at play with homeopathy.

""The latest piece of research tackling this issue is to be presented to a British Psychological Society conference in Winchester.

Professor Leslie Walker, from the University of Hull, looked at 80 women diagnosed with breast cancer.

All received exactly the same treatment and emotional support, but half also received training in relaxation techniques - they were taught to visualise their body's defences "overcoming" the cancer cells.

The women were judged as having a better quality of life than those who only received treatments plus emotional support.

And when their white blood cells were examined, they were found to be significantly different. ""
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G1BTW
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« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2009, 08:12:12 PM »

lol, just watched the vid Cheesy Cheesy

You can't knock that stuff though, people have been using these techniques (especially in China) for literally *thousands* of years.
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G1BTW
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« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2009, 08:25:57 PM »

Gonna start prayin for my great grandad, maybe a bit late tho

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/323/7327/1450





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henrik777
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« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2010, 06:25:27 PM »

A few quick searches seem to point to him being right about the fact there has been no global warming for over 11 years

A few looks out the window seems to indicate global warming is bollocks.

Sandy
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sledge13
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« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2010, 07:11:21 PM »

A few quick searches seem to point to him being right about the fact there has been no global warming for over 11 years

A few looks out the window seems to indicate global warming is bollocks.

Sandy

Gordon Brown and his mugs love "global warming" more easy taxes!!!
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